A2A lock ons.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by AirPilot, Apr 25, 2016.

  1. XyNox

    Shhhhh ... just ... let it happen
  2. Cyropaedia

    First "AirPilot" says AA is OP then he says LPPA (not Airhammer) is OP and now he says A2A Lock Ons are OP....
  3. Saturax

    Coment from pro pilot with bad english is here :D:
    1.9/10 pilots us emergency repair on F and not flares, so fear of lock on rockets is not that big.
    2.Stealt lvl 5 A2A rocket lock half day so its easy find enemy before he shoot and short distance. On short distance A2A is useless and pilot can not aim on you to lock.... ( fly under trees rocks buildings,atc... unlock it... its worst weapon esf weapon+LA pilots... )
    3.Stealt lvl 5 100% ignore coyotes ( i think its bug , but it work like this for now..... )
    4. Flares.... do i have to say more... ? combat will end before you can lock some one with main mg.

    Thats why almost no one play AA rockets except beginers and people who try get 1160 kills on it and when you finaly kill someone 1/3 pilots will insult you ( in beter case ) just call you NOOB .... I dont remember in half year get killed 1 time with A2A rocket...if you get kiled by it you fly bad.... probably turning back and start run from A2A is not good idea...

    If some one say its easy kill with lock on rocket ... try it XP/time worst weapon + flaming on way... :p
  4. Pirbi


    But I wasn't agreeing with you. I was saying if experienced players get tired of being ganked with noob locks and start using them, those noobs aren't getting any air time then either. It doesn't "level the playing field" other than the extent the experienced players refuse to be caught using such a lame weapon. In fact a noob is already at a disadvantage trying to go head to head with locks.
  5. Saturax

    experienced players use main gun, because you kill faster with it then rockets... no need to worry about experienced pilots with 2A2 rockets :rolleyes: ( if he dont try make auraxium on it )
  6. SuperTrooperWaterloo

    Once they removed the drifter jump jets, then you can do whatever you want to the A2A-locks.
    Until then i wont put in any efforts in maingun based ESF fights and use Tomcats instead if i can.
  7. Pirbi

    I've seen experienced players run gank squads using A2Am. And yes, they don't need to. Which makes it more disappointing to see. Or they use it by proxy by having a teammate with locks. But I don't think A2Am help noobs fight experienced players. It just makes the general air experience lame.
  8. Saturax

    Did you notice if they had auraxium on A2A ? Because its jump from 35K/hour on max 17,5K/hour (not member XP) you have only few A2A rockets and reloading take a long time+risk you get killed... moust of peole jump from plane... or try redeploy :D but you still risk get some normal esf behinde you and die... soo... its bad for KD too... +gank squads ? I didnt meet gank squads with 2A2 in 3 years... ( ceres server ) max 2-3 esfs.
  9. JobiWan

    If some dumbwit is hovering over a base they can't cap just to farm infantry with a giant flying shotgun and a friendly decides to take him on and scare him off with A2A lock-ons then yes, it's very much the ground unit's business.

    The game is a combined arms team game, it doesn't exist so some self professed aces can have air duels and what-not.
    • Up x 1
  10. Pirbi

    Glad you like lock ons and that we are in a free and open society that lets you come out as such a player. Say hello to the three people on Ceres for me.
  11. Saturax

    Yea i like lock on rockets and when some enemy try to lock me, becouse he dont start shoot me in back and i have time find him and shoot him down :D and i did fight max 1 v 2-3 A2A group ( you can not call it gang squad... ) and you can trust me they lose will us 2A2 and switch on main gun realy fast when they see first die on 1 magazine and im already on second :p ( i did write before 2A2 on short range is useless )
  12. Mianera

    Oh god, this crap again. Okay, fine, I'll say it again as bluntly as possible!

    1. ESF pilots go EMO on people using lockons, because they want to farm ground and therefore don't have any A2A equiped themselves

    2. ESF pilots go EMO because in -their- twisted minds, a defeat is only acceptable when it is from another ESF main weapon

    3. ESF pilots go EMO regardless of how you kill them, it doesn't matter if it is lockons or not, the whole airgame community has a CoD kid attitude.


    10% chance of rage tell if you killed them from ground with a G2A lockon
    20% chance of rage tell if you kill them from ground with a MBT main weapon
    30% chance of rage tell if you kill them with dumbfire launcher from ground
    40% chance of rage tell if you kill them as LA with C4
    50% chance of rage tell if you kill them with liberator secondary dalton
    60% chance of rage tell if you kill them with Archer
    70% chance of rage tell if you jump them in another ESF and kill them
    80% chance of rage tell if you kill them with dumfire lockons cayottes
    90% chance of rage tell if you kill them with lockon tomcats

    There it is. My argument for keeping tomcats in the game? Simple: To piss off some CoD kids!
    • Up x 5
  13. RainbowDash9

    and everyone knows theres no better feeling than that lol
    • Up x 3
  14. AirPilot

    Don't be salty because you're weak and tryed the airgame yourself but failed. I myself am new to flying, I can beat very new pilots but I lose most dogfights still however much of the community I've spoken too agree with removeing air to air locks.
  15. zaspacer

    It would seem that MORE OF THE COMMUNITY (as represented by this forum and the posts in this thread) are against removing air to air locks.

    As Demigan already covered, removing it is not a good thing.

    I highly approve of things like A2AM that can help equalize the lesser skilled players with the higher skilled players. Even if I do not use them often myself. They at least allow a certain number of pilots using them to compete with Aces at a more acceptable # ratio (noobs:Aces), something needed in a huge playerbase tactics game.

    I would also suggest making the following 2 changes to make Air a better fit for the game:

    1) Add Air Radar that lights up any Air unit that moves more than 1 space into enemy Faction territory (keeps them spotted on both mini-map and Main Map, of players in the Faction they in the territory of). This pushes ESFs more into their Faction's Battlefronts where the AA counters are. It reduces pressure on other units trying to move to the front within their own Territory, that are preyed on by Air (opening up more logistic play later for PS2). And it still allows Air to fly where it wants ("sandbox"), just with handicaps for doing so.

    2) reduce the Cert cost for Mag size increase on Noseguns. The skilled/overpowered players already have their Mags maxed. The new players are at a HUGE disadvantage having smaller Mags, and the cost is very high for them to even the playing field. We don't need EXTRA and UNNECESSARY boosts to experienced pilots on top of the basic skill advantage problems of the ESF. Even lowering these costs, players will still have plenty to spend Certs on (and want to do so) in the rest of the Loadout.

    Gank Squads will beat any outnumbered player that is of equal or lower skill than them. Gank squads don't need A2AM to take out noobs. Though in the case of the Scythe, A2AM helps deal with the enemy ESFs being much faster than it (in non-dives) and escaping.

    Gank Squads are also another method that can equalize the lesser skilled players with the higher skilled players.
    • Up x 1
  16. Jamuro

    I should know better but oh well ...


    Why A2A Lockons (tomcats) are bad and hated:
    This ofc is from personal experience and therefore probably to a certain degree biased (altough i ll try and keep it to a minimum)
    For the most part i ll assume a 1on1 situation (tomcats have plenty issues during big engagements but that would probably bloat this post even more)


    1. Tomcats help new players and are an equaliser:
    This argument makes me always cringe and wheep a bit.
    Once a new pilot manages to not immediatly crash into the ground learning to aim is the most important and difficult part of flying, so it would only seem natural that the lockon mechanic would help out in this regard ... sadly this is not realy the case.

    Contrary what rage tells tell you on the forums, it is not easy for most pilots to stay on target for several seconds.
    With noseguns you still apply some damage and once off target you can readjust and fire again, for lockons this is not the case.

    Meaning that any experienced pilot you face will do his best to try and break the lockon timer as often as he can.
    Yes he will miss more during that time and you survive longer, BUT all your damage is completly negaged each time he breaks your lock.

    This means that a new pilot can't just equipt tomcats and expect results, even there is a learning period involved.
    Now the need to learn how to use a weapon system is not inherently bad, it's just sad that the lockon mechanic is so completly different than the way noseguns work.

    Idealy imo a beginner weapon would teach you slowly how to use the primary weapons of the esf (which currently for a2a are all noseguns, simply because of the higher potential damage output once you learned to handle them)

    TlDR.: Tomcats while not bad for new pilots, don't help them to learn how to use the (potentialy) vastly superior primary weapons.


    2. Now why do pilots/skyknights hate tomcats then?
    There are probably as many reasons as skyknights (can't be that many left nowadays^^) but here are a few of mine.

    *Lockons in any form are one of the most often faced "dangers" for any pilot and therefore it slowly starts to feel like there is nothing else and no matter where you go you will always hear that annoying beebing sound.

    *Tomcats have a very buggy history
    I can't guarantee that it still works, but for a long time you could bug out the lockontimer and spam them with no cooldown.
    The issue was that even tough the ui (and the warning beeping) don't tell you, you could immediatly reengage an established lock, just by staying on target for about half a second after the first missile launched and clicking the living hell out of your mouse.

    This only works if there is some distance between you an the enemy, you need that 0.5 seconds flight time of the missile at least to do this.
    Last time i tried, i was able to fire 3 missiles before the first even hit its target!

    *Running from an a2a fight is tough, but with tomcats impossible
    It is realy tough to evade a good nosegun user, but it's still possible.
    If your enemy has tomcats it basically becomes impossible.

    *!! The utter lack of other a2a secondaries !!
    This is a big one!
    Fuelpods are still extremly lackluster and not many people enjoy the lockon mechanic we have.
    This has the tendency to leave anyone who doesn't enjoy tomcats with a very sour taste in your mouth.
    You basically feel left out and like the game just doesn't offer you any choice but to be at an disadvantage.

    *Flares suck ... period
    Sadly flares, the thing that's suposed to counter lockons are just abysmal at doing their job.
    The time window you gain is maybe enough for a2g bombardment but in an a2a situation not even remotly enough to justify not using fire supression (which if only hit by tomcats will allow you to eat one more than usual BUT is not a complete waste when fighting someone who doesn't use lockons)


    3. Gank squads/3rd party sniping
    Well yikes, i ll try and keep this one short even tough i would love to go off rails here.
    Basically this is where tomcats shine, stay out of the fight and fire at people that are already brawling from a save distance with almost no risk to yourself ... that's what i mean with 3rd party sniping.

    While completly legitimate, it's not exactly a fun way to die and again highlights the flaw the current flare vs firesup choice has.
    There simply isn't anything you can do

    And ofc then there are ganksquads, now this while infuriating probably only realy is an issue for the top1% out there.
    For the rest of us scrubs fighting outnumbered 3to1 means certain death no matter what.

    But then again, we all loved those youtube compilations of pilots beeing able to fight vs such odds and win.
    To a part this is what every pilot wants to achieve and even tough it isn't realistic you can't help but feel like you could ve managed, if it just wasn't for those damn lockons.

    The airgame always had bad stacking issues ... be it a pack of esfs instagibbing mbts via hornets or a lolpod rain of death or
    flak stacking and lockons are no different there.

    It's just sad that the gamedesigners involved with planetside2 still make those mistakes.
  17. zaspacer

    This is pure fantasy:
    "With noseguns you still apply some damage and once off target you can readjust and fire again"

    A lower skill pilot using just his Nosegun is dead vs. a higher skill pilot. A lower skill pilot using his Nosegun and/or A2AM is very probably dead vs. a higher skill pilot. But *multiple* lower skill pilots can reliably kill a higher skilled pilot with A2AM, and that is not something they can reliably do with Noseguns.

    PS2 is not a game built to be a good game for massive numbers of players because it fails to make the game playable for the masses. It also is a game that does not promote Strategy and Smarter Gameplay. Instead it skews the rewards for players with high Aim and Dodge Skill, and Tactics that focus on those.

    This type of gameplay is terrible for the game. These "Aces" don't just sit in their Faction's territory and help their Faction with Objectives. They fly deep into enemy Territory or along enemy-only Battlefronts and farm lower skill Air.

    PS2 is at some of its worst when Air Aces are camping enemy Warpgates, far away from their Faction, and farming lower skilled Air. Removing A2AM would just boost this playerbase killing gameplay by a massive margin.
    • Up x 1
  18. Saturax

    I realy want see skilled pilot waiting for 2A2 locks and how reliably he get shoot down :rolleyes:

    ( at worst case you can us tree to break lock and and snipe back, normaly you can us terain and just fly around hill, tower, rock, atc... or just get close to enemy ( even in mid air you can us your curent target for breaking lock, when you on purpose fly on other side from 2A2 locker ))

    Fight where you reliaby kill some one with A2A rocket is beginer vs beginer...
  19. breeje

    Pilots that want A2A fly high
    Pilots that want A2G fly low and get locked on
  20. ArcKnight

    so what about Buster Max's and Skyguards ?