The Magrider is a Heavy Harasser and NOT a Tank.

but the best way to take one out is sneak up it pooper, it just doesnt always go well..

and Thats my point you gotta be all ninja with them instead of IM A TANK GET Fd

I would LOVE if Mag was changed to be more of an MBT: Nerf Mag vs. all ground targets but MBTs. Buff Mag vs. other MBTs.

Mag is my LEAST FAVORITE unit to play against as an Infantry or Deployed Sunderer. It just shrugs off terrain barriers and moves all over the place. Changing the Mag to lose it's mobility and gain AV Firepower would go a MASSIVE way in improving how it fits with the game.

So like my post here and let's get these changes started:
1) NERF Mag mobility, give it treads and keep it on the same mobility as TR/NC Tanks.
2) BUFF Mag AV vs. TR/NC MBTs.

Good arguments so far, but I'd like to make a few points from my experience.
I've only tanked on the magrider for about 3 weeks, but even in this short time I've had the most fun piloting a magrider than the prowler or vanguard.
While its true that it doesnt fare well in 1v1s, the maggies seem to be much more potent in larger battlegrounds.
The strafe ability is a very strong quality in mid to long range.
Even an amateur tanker such as myself can 'sike' enemy tanks by AD strafing. But not only that, the hover mechanic makes it much easier to aim and land shots while moving. In contrast, the other land based tanks have to park in order to get a proper shot.

Also, I find that that since the whole body moves at once, I am able to protect my tank against rear shots/flank much better than in a vanguard or prowler. I've also noticed that enemy harassers are not as much of a threat since they have a much harder time getting behind me.
Even if they do, the magrider responds fast and that rear advantage is quickly deprived from those sneaky rats

lol
i think id rather go the all new MBT route someone suggested, so i can keep scaling those hills like papa V taught me.
serious though i Would pull the "new one" and charge down the road for some shell exchanging

yeah Those are for sure some of the mags strentghs, im not disputing that at all. its just a very dif thing, and as a fan of other gmaes with tanks sometimes i get tank jealous of the other factions MOre Tanky tanks

Are you more interested in being able to use Mag meaningfully in game, or with pushing the power level of the VS/Mag?

The Mag is currently OP (not crazy "game breaking" level, but it's top dog) vs. all ground units except TR/NC MBTs. And Mag users want to buff it vs. TR/NC MBTs rather than balance Mag out vs. all units.

Yes, I understand that you want your unit/Faction buffed to be as OP as possible. Just put that as the first sentence in your post. That is not good for people facing your unit/Faction, and it is not healthy for the game. If you ever decide you want your unit balanced to better fit the game (buffs and nerfs), then let us know.

Personally, I have the most trouble with Magriders at distance. If one manages to sneak up on me, I just pop shield and make him eat AP until he dies. A lone Mag on a hill, though, is the most infuriating thing ever. The strafing back and forth, then just turboing away if I manage to do any damage is difficult to counter, even with the superior projectile velocity.

Vanguard is all about sneaking up and dropkicking you in the face. Stay out of dropkick range.

I'm gonna read this thread later, but I just wanted to say, I love hover tanks. My first experience with one was Tribes 2, next was BF 2142, then Quake Wars, and now PS2. The Tribes 2 tank was very fast, and you could have tons of fun doing road kills with it.

if i had to pick your changes or nothing id leave as it because i do enjoy it uniqueness.. and i dont agree thats op by any means so, do you think giving us an unfixed turret would be too much to ask?

Well, I am not surprised you want to keep what you have. Just as I was not surprised you wanted more.

I think Mag is OP. I think ESF is OP. HA, Lib, etc., etc. Just about every units that sees widespread or dominating use is OP in my book. NOT "game breaking" OP, where it needs to be nerfed to save the game. But OP where it's already very powerful and other (lesser used) units/certlines/loadouts need a lot of buffs to get on its level.

I think giving Mag an unfixed turret is probably too much. They can get to too many places and change their elevation too much. Given an unfixed turret they would be too effective at AA and even more effective as Mobile AI.

The Magrider OP vs. all ground units ?

http://ps2oraclestats.com/monthly-vehicle-deaths/

P2-120 AP #1 cause of death for pretty much every ground vehicle in this game.

I am sorry if I confused the issue and made that unclear. I am not trying to say it's *the* singular "best" unit in the game overall or of a specific AI/AV category. I am trying to say it's in the OP-tier/top tier power level in the game. Van and Prowler are also OP (again, just top dog OP, not game breaking OP). You don't have to be the #1 performer to be in the "top dog" pack in my book (at least not currently).

Those statistics don't say what you think they say. First, magriders are used significantly less than the other mbts. There is no way they can compete in "total vehicle kills" simply because the other mbts are used more often. Also, a prowler's dps is heavily weighted towards its main gun, while the other mbts have a more even split. This means that the prowler main gun ends up looking particularly powerful while the secondaries look particularly weak. That doesn't mean that the prowler main gun is op and the secondaries are weak, it just means that the main gun "steals" kills from the secondaries.

If you look at vehicle kills per hour at http://ps2oraclestats.com/monthlystats/ (to account for different numbers of people using each gun) and combine main gun stats with secondary stats, an ap/halberd mag leads the pack, and all of the prowler loadouts end up being significantly below both the ap/halberd mag and the ap/saron mag.

To determine if a combat unit is OP, you must compare it with it's other counterparts, in your scenario, you must compare the vanu MBT with the other 2 faction specific MBT's, the Vanguard and the Prowler.

All tanks are OP against infantry otherwise....you seriously make NO SENSE at all with your posting, it's like you don't apply logic to your reasoning and compare a machine gun with a sword.

When you say is OP as a a tank , do please compare it with the other to mbt's. You will see then that the Magrider loses in almost every stat.

But sure, it can climb 20 yards more that others.

At the range of the fights nowadays, 200 yards or so, strafing with Magrider will NOT HELP, you will get hit.Magrider is the worst main battle tank from all the battle tanks in Planetside 2.

Directional turret is a must, and i think they will implement it.

Until then, the vanu faction will keep on spawning lightnings, witch in terms are better than Magriders.

There is a reason the vs pulls so few Magriders, and it's because the Maggy sucks compared with the other 2 mbt's.
Another reason is that for a Magrider to be viable, even after FULLY certed, is that it needs 2/2 driver and gunner, where the other 2 mbt's can easily go 1/2 and still demoilish a Magrider head on.
NC and TR are spawning mbt's like crazy, where the vanu don/t.
Why so ?

That's as silly as saying Mosquito isn't OP because it's not as OP as Scythe. Being OP is not mutually exclsuive. It's just Over Powered. And I already said I think all 3 MBTs are Over Powered... in the Standard Game... in the Hardcore Organized Game they are severely Under Powered.

I already covered this above. More than one unit can be Over Powered. And units that have bad matchups against specific units can still be Over Powered.

I see Mags and other MBTs all over the Battlefield.

More Lightnings are spawned for all 3 Factions than their MBTs.

No offense but the NC are just too terrible and disorganized to even realize how good the Vanguard is. There is NO WAY the Magrider should have better stats than your tank.

But spending 5 minutes playing NC in this game, or fighting against them, tells you everything you need to know.

Even your outfit, who specializes in armor, is terrible at it. I watch you guys do really stupid stuff like drive 20 Vanguards and Sunderer single-file down a road to a battle. Oblivious to tank mines (because roads are REALLY obvious places to put them, news flash) and C-4 droppers.

1. I said competent crew, who never let you shoot their rear 2 times...Generaly, after the first hit scan they imediately turn the hull on you, pop the shield and charge at you or hide&repair&charge, after you lost the benefits of ambush.In this case you have 3 options: Run or die... or place tank mines and hope they have no HUD implant.
2. Shield has 3000 health.
3. you cant trade damage with the VG If only 1 AP+1enforcer hit the side armor, and the rest of all hit the front armor, then the second "voley" will burn the Magrider meanwhile VH will have 25% health. VG outdamages Magrider even with their side armor.
4. I didnt say Maggie cant win. It very depends on the situtation, positioning, competence,environment... I said MG would lose most times without allies against dedicated VG tankers.
5. I think Aphelion is far better flank weapon than Saron, eats the shield faster then Saron. Its better in AI. the charged shot simply OP against infantry....

Maggie is a harasser. It is very good against harassers (especially with racer chasis+stealth), sunderers and lightnings. Not to mention, average level of Magrider users is higher than Vanguards. Average VG user is a potato, sorry its fact. Also NC pull more lightning over vanguard, TR use lot of harassers.
So generaly battlefield is full of foods for Magriders. Still sucks as an MBT.

Yeah, but all indirect nerf was ok?
GKs insane velocity and Enforcer velocity buff was Ok, turretstabilization buff was ok. Fracture velocity buff will be ok.
Meanwhile Magrider slowly lose the whole Dodgethedamage ability, which is already lost below 300 m.

Wow. So it doesnt let you camping on a spot and farming? Magrider hidoi yo ne? It must be annoying, but not lethal.

200 yards are ~180m.
And to the guy Im quoting, would you please use the same units as the rest of the world? At least when your posting on an international forum? Thanks.

Now on topic: Is VS victim complex a thing yet?

Aye I've had a similar transformation over time. I used to be a TR-only player/tanker (years ago) but I've since made both a VS and a NC alt, with the primary purpose of using their MBTs. The Magrider is simply so much more comfortable and fun to drive. The people saying it isn't effective just don't know how to use it (and to all you crazy people, no, hill-climbing isn't the only advantage of the Magrider).

A tad of jealousy is perfectly natural, but have you actually tried making a character on the other factions and try out the tanks? I've had great fun making a VS/NC toon, in fact, so much fun (especially using the Magrider) that I barely touch my Prowler these days, unless one of my gunners feel like gunning a Prowler instead or it is difficult finding good fights on my VS. I would definitely recommend trying them out, if not only to give you an additional perspective in what it's like to fight against Magriders.

In my humble opinion it would be a bit too strong, yes (at least for experienced users). I guess it could be decent for the newer tankers that still need to get used to the aspect. I would love something similar to a rear-view mirror (like in a car for reversing) since that would help give you some situational awareness on demand, without improving the combat characteristics of the Magrider further (which it doesn't need in my opinion).

Now, I don't think this is what you mean, but I really hope you aren't meaning a 1/2 Prowler/Vanguard will beat a 2/2 Magrider. I can still easily take out 1/2 Prowlers in my 1/2 Magrider, and Vanguards can generally be kited pretty easily if they are 1/2 (due to their lack of accuracy on the move from the main cannon whilst moving). A battle of attrition typically takes them out. The Vanguard requiring more of an effort (for everyone) to take out is nothing new.

I don't agree, especially because your statement "the Maggy sucks" is way to generalistic. It also doesn't reflect that the stats (and my experience) show the Magrider to be the most effective vehicle killer in the game. Even though the Prowler is clearly the better vehicle for "farming" at long-range (without having an impact on the fights) that is, and the Magrider is arguably the worst tank for farming (which further skews the stats). For instance, while the Prowler is great at locking down a spawn room, the Magrider is great at using it's AI-capabilities in places other than a spawn room (therefore actually impacting battles), primarily due to the increased terrain traversability.

Well, lets look at some reasons as to why people would generally pull a Lightning:

• They are only 1 person
• Lower nanite cost (especially if you are only 1 person)
• They don't want/need a gunner (either they don't have a friend willing to currently gun, or they don't want to deal with randoms blowing their "cover"/Stealth.
• They want a smaller profile
• They want a more "incognito" apperance that is harder to distinguish from the friends of your enemies.
• It's faster (GOTTA GO FAST!)

Then lets look at some things the Magrider has going against it (again, not a comprehensive list):

• The Magrider is the worst 1/2 tank several reasons, a few of which I've listed below:
  • The lowest DPS of the main cannons (meaning a Lightning has higher DPS than a 1/2 Magrider, but also a 1/2 Vanguard to be fair).
  • Lack of 3rd-person view without a gunner.
  • Poor main-cannon defensability from aircraft (especially compared to the Vanguard).
• The Magrider loses the CQC "Oh hi there" moments where a Vanguard/Prowler suddenly appears around a corner (assuming a fair situation).
• The Magriders main cannon is the hardest to use for inexperienced people due to the lower velocity
  • The fixed turret also makes it more punishing to make mistakes in estimating where enemies will appear
  • Aiming with the turret is also different from the other tanks, and could take a while to get used to / master.
• The fixed-turret is "different" and I guess takes a while to get used to (at least if you are going to train yourself to keep a semblance of situational awareness whilst driving

Giving a reason as simple as "because it sucks" is incredibly lazy, and shows no real effort to participate in the discussion (and/or lack of insight into the Magrider as well I guess).

That isn't the only strength of the Magrider by far. If you really believe that, you either need more practice using the Magrider, or you need to talk to someone who actually can use the Magrider effectively.

Fixed your statement for you, no charges asked!

And how much experience do you have in the Magrider and Vanguard respectively in order to put forth such a statement?