Tank Balance

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Kraxist, Feb 8, 2016.

  1. Hegeteus

    :rolleyes:
    • Up x 1
  2. Poppington

    Down memory lane we go.
  3. EliteEskimo


    1.Like I had already said, I defined crying as hyperbolic/over exaggerated type of statements, not simply trying to make a point which is what you referred to me as "crying", learn the difference.

    2. ESF and Liberator pilots make up one of the smallest minorities of the game, somewhere around 1% of the players base, yet are ruthlessly deadly and effective. Just because LA require higher skill cap then say HA or medic to do well does not make the class is weak. Technically speaking LA has a lot more survivability then engineer because after each kill or so they can jet pack away to a new location or fly up on a roof and get a lot of kills on unsuspecting people. Frankly it's not hard to go on long infantry based kill streaks, I often use medkits over C4, because you can get in awesome spots infantry don't expect you to be.

    3. Point out where I tried to compare my experience to yours on LA as if to say I had more? I only said stat wise I was ranked among the highest in the game when using C4 and that I merely had experience as LA but not comparatively more time spent than you. There's that straw man I'm so familiar with seeing,:rolleyes:

    4. Overshield was nerfed because it provided too much of an I-Win button providing un fun gameplay and allowed bad players playing as HA to too easily win again other non HA players who weren't comparatively as bad . I thought that was obvious, but apparently not.

    5. "Nobody really like you guys"- ECUS is one of if not the most respected vehicle oriented outfits in the game, and people typically appreciate our input and the videos we put out. The vast majority of vehicle oriented people use AP which is horrible for camping and the vast majority of tank enthusiasts including myself find camping very boring. The people you see camping spawn are often infantry players that used their tanks as a taxi to get to a base and stay in it till they are blown up. I know this, because I'm normally the one who is blowing these infiltraitors, medics, or HA driving around in low certed heat tanks up. HE tanks are absolute crap and it's rare for me to find them in the field.

    6. Nobody wants to see C4 nerfed but me and JohnGalt? Another completely baseless and innaccurate claim ,not that I'm surprised, when C4 was nerfed on the PTS this was the response. Many people were glad when they thought it was finally going to get balanced. https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps2/index.php?threads/new-c4-damage-to-tanks-video.141229/

    A thread talking about changing the damage C4 does to MBT's got a whopping 57 pages of replies, with many agreeing the current situation wasn't right https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps2/index.php?threads/mbt-vs-c4.135670/

    When 2 c4 was nerfed on the test server, the top rated comment in this c4 thread was "for real? I found a reason to actually come back to this game" https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps2/index.php?threads/two-c4-doesnt-kill-an-mbt-anymore.163509/

    So sorry to break it to you, but there are a lot of people who would like to see it happen.

    7. How is 10+ infantry auraxiums and playing more as infantry than tanks for months = glued to my seat? Ahhh yes, Hyperbole or another baseless statement which holds no weight in reality.

    8. Hate to break your bubble, not really;) , but even the best tankers die to LA with C4 and I know this because I've played with many of them while in BWC and now in ECUS which has a teamspeak where many amazing vehicle users from all different outfits come to hang out.
    • Up x 2
  4. Kraxist


    Honestly man, I feel you...but just last night for example...I was fighting on Esamir. We didn't have the tech plant. My buddy and I pulled a Vanguard from the Warpgate and drove out to the battle for Eisa, expecting a good time. BAM...blown up by an invisible flash that wrecked into our backside with c-4 on it. OK, haha. That's funny. Then it happened 2 more times. We spent 20 minutes basically just driving from the warpgate to Eisa just to get instagibbed in an extremely unfair manner.

    I'm not saying light assaults need to be nerfed. I love playing light assault, but enabling this type of ******** anti-fun behavior is ruining this game for me. And you can defend it all you want, there is nothing fun about this except for the trolls who are doing it. "Oh get proximity radar!" OH UH WELL EXCUSE ME IM PIGEONHOLED INTO A CQC VANGUARD RUNNING VEHICLE STEALTH NOW INSTEAD OF THE MINE GUARD I WANT TO BE USING!

    So let's give it a rest. C-4 is being misused and abused, and that's just plain facts. C-4 would never destroy a tank, merely disable it from moving. And HONESTLY, that's what should be happening in this game when it comes to MBTs. They should be completely disabled until the engi's get out and repair the tank to move again.
  5. Reclaimer77

    If you were blown up by Wraith Flash's, your issue isn't even with Light Assault. That's Infiltrator!

    And why would you even waste the certs running Mine Guard??
  6. Reclaimer77

    We've never seen eye to eye and I doubt we will now. But you really aren't making sense.

    The Devs nerfed Overshield for the exact reasons you mentioned. Yes, it was obvious. That was my point! And it's for those very same reasons that they decided to not nerf C-4. And they also decided to not make good on the so-called "promise" of nerfing infantry AV that you armor junkies keep bringing up.

    You want it both ways. You can't blame "crying" when things don't go your way, and on the same hand say the Devs make objective decisions when it's about something else. Which is it?

    Okay Captain Literal! You really think I meant that literally?

    ESF and Liberator pilots are not a "class". Do you know what the classes are for Planetside 2? Talk about straw men and hyperbole!

    So you took a break from the forums and farmed some infantry kills so you could build up your street cred, come back to the forums, and continue to shill for your favored playstyle. I guess you want a golf clap for your obvious and transparent agenda here?
  7. Taemien


    The issue you described is complicated.

    1. Your beef is with an infiltrator and one other class.
    2. That other class was likely a medic, engie, heavy, or LA, basically anything that isn't another infil.
    3. It took two people to pull off.
    4. Those two people were in voice communication and cooperation with each other.

    Then there's the issues of what you were doing.

    1. You said you were expecting a good time? Can you elaborate on that? What did you expect to do with your Vanguard? Basically what was your plan? Or you just going in seeing what happens next?
    2. You appear to have had a gunner by the pronouns you used. Were you in voice communications with this person?
    3. It appears he was unable to kill the infiltrator before getting the 'invisible' flash. Flashes are very visible when within 50m. DId your gunner not have his model textures set to high? Why not if he didn't?

    My issue with the whole C4 bit is that C4ing a random tank that.. well to be honest, puts themselves in a situation to be C4'd is one of the most wasteful in both time and nanites things you could do in PS2. And people go to some great lengths to do it. C4ing from a wraith flash, C4ing after jumping from a ESF, and the list goes on.

    C4ing Sundies makes sense. This is my preferred method of using it. And most don't have an issue with this. Especially with shield sundies blocking the damage now. And of course.. that's not what the issue is.

    The issue is useless tanks being C4'd by a user of a useless tactic.

    Don't take it the wrong way. MBT's are just a useless vehicle over all. You said you were attacking a Techplant. You didn't specify why. So I assume you went there hoping something would be available to shoot at. That's not very.. thoughtful nor useful in the grand scheme of the attack, now is it?

    Maybe that was the intent? You didn't care if the Techplant was taken or not. You just wanted to shoot stuff. Nothing wrong with that. However.. you're on here saying C4 is abused. Is pulling your tank to a battle and not helping take a the techplant and allowing you and your gunner to inflate the attack's number, thereby allowing the defenders further redeploys not also considered abuse?

    If not, why do you think that? That is if you were just there to 'have fun'.

    You see, C4ing tanks is a bit of abuse, but not to the target. For every C4ing LA or whatever, that's one less useful defender that can deploy in. Or if on the attack, its one more defender that can come in who is willing to defend against an unequal number of willing attackers.

    In the end, it roughly averages out. Which as an objective base player.. I don't see it as a real issue.

    What is an issue is the amount of complaining Tankers do. I like vehicles, most do. They're big. They're cool. They have lots of firepower. And you know what? Tanks are sexy. That's what it really comes down to. They feel right when you're blowing crap up and they are fun to use.

    But with the majority of points and objectives outside of their range in buildings and up high. They're fun, but useless. And when used in a useless manner, they are unsupported. Think about that. No one bothered to support you at Eisa. Why is that? Well because they wanted to take it. Supporting a Vanguard wouldn't help them take Eisa. You knew that. Or should.

    Tanks aren't always useless. Sometimes you need to take out sundies. Sometimes you need to take out tanks that are trying to take out your sundies. And occasionally you need to barrage a tower to keep the turrets and enemy suppressed to get the sundies in place and formulate an assault. But outside that, the Tank is useless.

    This isn't by tank design. This is base design that causes this. But I've already made my point earlier about this. I won't repeat it again here in this post.

    So now we have tanks in areas we don't need tanks in. They move easily, they're vulnerable, and well they're likely bored. This means your crew gets complacent and doesn't pay attention. Boom, C4'd. Take heart though.. the person running the C4 on your tank didn't run it on a Sunderer. And he's being a waste for his team.

    But its frustrating. No doubt there. But you know what frustrates me more than getting randomly C4'd? Being put in the situation where my vehicle isn't useful anymore and that situation put me in the spot to get C4'd in the first place.

    That is what should be frustrating you. Not the C4. C4 is just a symptom.

    On a side note.. why are you running Mineguard instead of EOD HUD? I mean I get that you don't want to run Stealth on your Vanguard (I don't run stealth either on mine). But Mineguard? If you don't have a decent rank of EOD, that's understandable. Its got to be at least tier 3 to be useful in a vehicle.
    • Up x 1
  8. Kraxist


    Hold on. You're under the impression that I even made it to the fight. You seem to be under the impression that I was in actual battle.

    I have no problem getting C-4ed by a LA who earned it. Who really took the time to hunt me down, fly over me, drop the charges, and blow it before getting killed somehow. I play LA all the time. I HAVE ALOT OF RESPECT FOR LA, and I know how to avoid this.

    No, we were driving along. From our warpgate, still about 2 bases in from being on any front line. BOOM. Dead. 3 times in a row.

    Now it's hard enough to dodge libs and other aircraft trying to pick off straggler tanks. It's difficult enough to keep eyes peeled in all directions for a suprise attack on the way to the front. Now I gotta stay on the look out for invisible flashes that are going to kamikaze into me?

    Seriously bro? This seems like a fair shake to you? This seems like I'm having fun and getting my money's worth out of this game to you? Let me tell you about all the ways I had fun in this scenario.

    I jumped a large ditch on the way back out once. Almost flipped. It was a little funny.
    • Up x 1
  9. Poppington

    EOD = Implant, Mineguard = Defense Slot.

    Only real options for Defense slots are Side Armor and Stealth.

    Rank 3 or higher of EOD is borderline mandatory as of late for a tanking implant. Freaking pizzas everywhere.
  10. EliteEskimo


    It was obvious but it was highly controversial which is why it took roughly 3 years for it to happens, the same can be said about C4 which is still taking a long time. It's obvious Ravens are broken too, roughly 2 years and they haven't gotten fixed either. It's about priorities, and it's kinda easy to see that fixing the vehicle game isn't very high on the priority list. It should also be incredibly obvious the game is incredibly biased towards infantry in this game, so asking for reasonable changes can still be a lot to ask for.

    I blame crying because that's what the arguements mostly amounted to. Rage posts about how LA is already a bad useless class or it's the least played class so it's already a horrible class why nerf C4 which the LA likes to use ect.

    If you don't want me to take what you say literally then clearly indicate so, don't just post sentences without satirical indicators and then later when you're proven wrong essentially go "I wasn't being literal, I'm just kidding! lolololol"

    No they aren't a class, but they are a community of players who do the same/ very similar things. LA players are both playing a class but are also a community of people doing the same/very similar things. Do I really need to break things down to such a degree of simplicity to draw comparisons when talking with you?
    • Up x 1
  11. Reclaimer77

    Knock yourself out. It's clear you aren't interested in a discussion.

    That's like playing World of Warcraft and complaining that they are biased toward PVE raiding/cakeating.

    I mean..duh? Yeah how dare the Devs be "biased' toward the vast majority of players in a FPSMMO. It's not like you design your products to reach a target audience or anything! They should cater to some small loudmouthed minority of players who want to camp doorways in tanks...
  12. EliteEskimo


    I'm not interested in discussion? That's rich coming from someone who quickly and precisely had effectively all their major points shot down and precisely picked apart. It's amusing that you would talk down to me, when it was you who was quick to start using strawmen and hyperbole all while claiming that in one of their other points which was presented in a literal context, which was meant to discredit and belittle my John Galt's arguments, that all along they were only kidding a.k.a not being literal only after that point was completely and utterly blown out of the water.

    The developers could easily make changes that would greatly benefit combined arms gameplay and open field combat, both of which infantry can benefit from/enjoy but they are often too worried about the big picture to look into the small details that work into that big picture which could benefit everyone/their game and not just vehicle players.

    Ahh and you end in an all too predictable strawman, claiming/implying that I consist of or am a part of a group of players who like to camp doorways/spawn rooms with tanks, when I have countless times stated not only undoubtedly to you but many others that I detest that sort of activity and find it boring.

    Forumside..... Forumside never changes.
    • Up x 3
  13. Taemien



    You were fair game the moment you left the warpgate. You see if you've played other MMOs (MMORPGs) you'd be familar with PVP. The difference between match based games and MMOs with PVP (like PS2) is you will run into players who's sole goal is to ruin your day.

    This isn't imbalance. This isn't griefing. This is PVP.

    If you don't think you are getting your money's worth out of this due to PVP. I'd recommend bailing out for a match based shooter. And don't take that the wrong way. I'm not saying you are a lesser player for it. I am really not. Not everyone is into PVP. I get that. I understand it.

    But for me, I love it. If someone puts down mines at a terminal, or snipes, sets up AA to block air, sets up air gank squads, and this flash combo (which is effective by your account). I love all of it. I like doing it. I like having it done to me. I'm in my glory when someone contrives a new way to stop me from getting to my destination or accomplishing my goal. I learn something new, a new tactic, a new means of inflcting PVP on other players.

    To me its a game. Clever uses of tools and game mechanics. Not exploits though.

    And sticking a C4 to a Flash is NOT an exploit. Think about it. C4 sticks to vehicles, both friendly and enemy by design. C4 goes off when detonated. A flash stuck by C4 driving up and detonating is using all legit game mechanics.

    Air Gank Squads are not exploiting. You're taking single users of ESFs and making them work as a team. You can fly anywhere in the open world. They do that, and kill everything they see.

    Same thing with every other PVP tactic many people complain about. But in all honesty its really no different than dying to a rocket or carbine. They are just taking an angle you didn't expect. Its just like a medic sitting in the building that ISN'T the control point. You go in to recapture and.. no one's there. Then take a assault rifle burst to the back of the face.

    Just because I like PVP doesn't make me a griefer. It doesn't make me a sociopath. It doesn't make me a terrible person. And I'm not a hypocrite. As I said before, I love when its done to me, especially in a clever way I haven't seen yet. This is what I pay for to play this game.

    I play competitively most times. I'm an objective based player. But sometimes my friends and I and sometimes the outfits I'm in like to do other things. So we engage in abnormal play. That might be setting up a sunderer behind enemy lines. Harasser columns. Air squads. When NC I might even organize a Phoenix squad.

    And when we encounter a group doing the same thing. We contrive all kinds of methods to take each other out.

    That's not everyone's forte. And I think if getting blown up before reaching the fight upsets you, then you should reevaluate why you chose to play a PVP MMO.

    PVP is Player Versus Player. That means other players can and WILL dictate what you can and cannot do. It is only through will, grit, and coordination that you can overcome them. Whoever has more gets to play their way. That's the essence of PVP.

    Its not fair, its not pretty, its very competitive. You have to decide for yourself what is good for you. Fight or not. In the end, PS2 will always be PVP unless they make it a match based shooter.


    I use Nanite Auto Repair on my Vanguard due to the long range capabilities I use it for. I use Stealth on my Prowler.
  14. Reclaimer77

    What? You didn't defeat a single point. You posted a few links and attempted to use them as a sample of the entire playerbases's opinions and beliefs. Which is just...laughable really. You made up classes that don't exist. And when that failed, you resorted to hyper-literalism. The battle cry of Internet argument-losers everywhere.

    I'm loving this honestly. MBT ****ters like you who cry about C-4 is half of the reason I log in every night and look to dispense as many bricks-o-pain as possible onto the top of your turrets.

    Your tears taste like candy.
  15. Kraxist


    I appreciate your input, and I largely agree with you. I was actually amused by it the first time. And as for the flying squads, I appreciate the skill involved. I'm not ******** just to ***** here.

    C-4 is intentionally not available to infiltrators, because someone who is invisible running up to your tank and blowing it up would be overpowered. It's the REASON infiltrators can't get C-4. And yet my friend, this is the exact scenario that is being played out in this instance.

    It doesn't matter if its 2 people working together. It's the same result. It's the same thing they were originally trying to prevent by not giving infiltrators access to c-4 in the very first place. And if it wasn't, then why the crap can't infiltrator's have c-4?

    I think maybe you need to re-evaluate what the word exploit means. You're not supposed to damage friendly units or vehicles. You get warned for doing so, penalized for repeating. That's exactly what's happening here. SO, it's a exploit of the practice of basing friendly fire lock on shots fired and not damage done or if a unit was destroyed.

    It IS an exploit, my friend. And one that needs to be rectified.
  16. Reclaimer77

    Did you just call Wraithflash+C-4 an exploit?

    Wow... Good luck backing that up.
  17. Taemien


    If you honestly believe that.

    I just did it, and I freely admit to it. You now should report me for doing so. You can use the report button in this post as evidence. We'll see if I even get a warning on the forums for it. Much less an action against my account.

    Though I will say this. I did this with someone who claimed software crosshair overlays were cheating. He did take me up on my little challenge. Nothing came of it. Knowing that, you can recant your statement if you wish.

    What my definition, or what your definition of an exploit is irrelevant. The Game Moderators definition is what matters. And I highly doubt this is an exploit by their definition. I'm telling you this so you can drop this angle, its not going to go anywhere.
    • Up x 1
  18. EliteEskimo


    So your points that were shot down were

    1. You claimed I was the one to result to childish antics by saying the tears of LA/infantry players caused the C4 nerf on the test server not to be implemented. I defined what I meant by tears equating to hyperbole and pure exaggerations, where as you said I was crying for merely stating points

    2. You tried to make it sound like that because players perceive LA is a weak class and not good for most combat situations that that is the case, I pointed out that is purely false and that the LA can be deadly efficient it only requires a higher skill cap.

    3. You tried to state the C4+ LA is it's only Saving grace, where as I again pointed to that as a LA with medkits has immense staying power, particularly if an escape to fly to or walk to after each kill is present. I do this myself

    4. You tried to claim as if I was comparing your LA experience to yours as if to say I was claiming to be a more experienced LA player. When in actuality all I pointed out was that my effectiveness with C4 is among the highest in the game and that I have some experience with LA.

    5. You attempted to point out that if crying to get the devs not to do something worked then why did the over shield get nerfed. I pointed out dev bias toward general infantry players and that the whining did work in slowing that obviously needed change because it took roughly 3 years for it to actually happen.

    6. "No body really likes you guys"- You put this in a literal context, I pointed out that my outfit of vehicle players is one that is admired, respected, the opinions we put out are often listen too or have weight in arguments, and the videos we put out are often well liked.

    7. You claimed nobody but me and John Galt wanted c4 nerfed (Once again you put this in 100% literal context)- I gave you close to 100 pages of evidence showing evidence otherwise and some of the posts supporting my evidence within those pages not only proved my point but were heavily liked/rated.

    8. You claimed I have my butt glued to my MBT seat- I pointed to my 10+ infantry auraxiums oh and by the way if you're the same Reclaimer77 that exists on Emerald http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/player/Reclaimer77 (I'm assuming you are because he too is a LA primary) I have more infantry auraxiums than you and much more overall kills as infantry than you. You also have so few tank weapon kills or any vehicle weapon kills for matter that on Dasanfall it's not even listed. So when it comes to being biased, based on personal playstyle that ball would fall firmly in your court not mine.

    9. You tried to claim that since LA are the least played infantry class they are weak and don't deserve C4 nerfs. I made a similar comparison of how a comparatively small group of players all playing a similar playstyle, ESF or Lib pilots in this case, make up only around 1% of the player base but are an extremely lethal force and even though many people don't use or pull ESF's regularly doesn't make them ineffective or highly lethal.

    10. You tried to claim good tank players don't die to C4, my outfit's team speak is personally host to many great vehicle players of all 3 factions and they too die to C4 and I can say this from playing with them first hand.

    Honestly I'd have more more fun discussing this with you, but you figuratively don't have a leg to stand on at this point.
    • Up x 2
  19. Reclaimer77

    So you just redefined what "crying" and whining meant based on whatever you viewpoint is as the time? Brilliant. When you cry it's "stating points", when others do it, it's crying. Wake up, you are here crying and whining for C-4 and LA to be nerfed. Couch it however you want to, but you're just being a hypocrite.

    They put the C-4 nerf on the test server. It was tested. And through testing they determined it wouldn't be good to put it to the live servers. It's just that simple. QQ more!

    Hey apples, meet oranges. Really nothing more needs to be said on this nonsense.

    You are talking about nerfing the most neglected class in the game. The least played infantry class. The class that was promised a revamp, then a tool slot item, and has still gotten nothing. While EVERY other class has gotten either new weapons, or deployables, etc etc. So yeah, can you maybe see how someone who primarily enjoys Light Assault could want you to go **** yourself for trying to nerf the ONE thing that makes the class fun and unique?

    Well that's nice, but I'm not on your outfits team speak am I? So this is just more arbitrary and subjective BS. Lots of tank players post here that C-4 isn't a problem to them. No that doesn't mean they NEVER die to C-4, and you know goddamn well that's not what I meant either you dunce. If you want to be immune to something go play something else. EVERYTHING should have a chance to kill you in this game.

    Congrats, you found my TR alt. Played VERY casually. Was there a point? Do you honestly expect a toon of that BR and cert investment to have 10+ infantry Auraxiums or something?? Nice attempt at a name n' shame with this one, but it doesn't mean a freaking thing.

    HA! Nobody is winning or losing here jack. We see things differently, that is all. You try to make these long winded posts to try and "win" something you never can.

    Honestly things have only gotten more toxic since your return. Do the forums and favor and crawl back into the whole you came back from.
  20. EliteEskimo


    I'm not surprised it got worse. Most people went to reddit where the developers are, leaving even less good people to maintain forumside while people like yourself only make it rot and fester further. I'm glad I left for greener pastures, and I assure you my visits to this place will be both short and infrequent at best. I'll keep an eye out for you when I'm playing on NC alt ;)