liberator health

Lib is more likely to be killed by tank driver than tank driver is likely to be killed by Lib.

MBT cause of death


Lib cause of death

As you can see MBT AP round is 7th and 9th most common cause of death for Lib while none of the Lib's weapons are even in top 20 cause of death for MBTs.

"Spawn camping" is the last step of capping a base in most capping situations.
So is it actually the base capture mechanic that is the issue or is infantry/vehicle spawn suppression viable if it doesn't include libs?

I really do understand your points and I do understand where posts like this come from but in a game such as this, the idea of a 'hard counter' does not exist nor can it ever exist.
PS2 has done a very good job of creating counters to what your opponent is using, in varying 'shades of gray'. Some are better than others but none are invincible. With so many options open to you in PS2, any thread of this type is ultimately a player that has yet to learn something specific that will keep him alive longer.

I disagree hard counters do exist and they have an identifying form.Granted there are some counters that are very gray as they kind of counter everything like C4. Hard counters are weapons that serve only 1 purpose they "can" do other things but they do them so poorly that its considered nonviable. For an example ill give you the Archer this sniper rifle i would consider a hard counter to Max units. It can kill infantry with a few well placed shots with a long rechamber time but you will kill a light assault in the same amount of shots you can kill a Max it also damages vehicles but it takes so much time that its just not viable unless you get a lucky last shot. Now like the archer lets take the skyguard much like the Archer it really can only do one roll it can kill infantry with time and luck do to its cone of fire and it can finish off vehicles but it cant really do either viably. The difference is unlike with an archer it doesnt do what its supposed to well and this is because of a few key differences. With an Archer you have accuracy and high damage this means that if your good enough your going to make your target retreat immediately with a well placed shot with AA they can sit in it for a while with a lib before leaving.

Now honestly my ideal AA hard counter would be a weapon that hit as hard as a prowler AP cannon but with the velocity and rechamber time of a titan AP and the shooting angle of a walker so it could aim straight up but not be used for AV without some weird angle magic with hills. With a weapon like this you would get high alpha damage to make target leave immediately if you hit them wouldnt 1 shot ESF but still do enough damage to make a lib reconsider what its doing but still have a long enough rechamber time that an esf would have a chance to leave before it gets hit again and yet the user could if hes good enough finish him off if he manages to land a second shot on a dodging speeding off ESF in the distance and would add some much needed viable skill based ways to combat air basically an archer against air as for the details on what form and for what this weapon takes form i leave up to the professionals.

Shhhhshhshshs......

Don't bring stats into this discussion!

This is a Liberator whine thread.

You are not allowed to use logic or reason.

Again pure statistics with no context paints a biased picture.

Realistically only hovering Libs or extremely low flying Libs are going to be dying to tank rounds. Translation: bad pilots and lucky gunners. Liberators realistically have very few counters.

Meanwhile MBT's can die from a large number of different vehicles, infantry weapons, and other MBT weapons. They can die to a single player with C-4. They die to vehicle mines some player left on a road hours ago etc etc.

So the statistics are naturally going to show a higher incident of other weapons killing MBT's before Liberator weapons. It's just common sense and should be pretty obvious to anyone who plays this game.

Uh so now tankbuster pilots are bad pilots or lucky? So now we don't need to nerf the tankbuster?
Once again shows that 99% of these types of threads begin from high emotion.

Our definition of 'hard counter' is different then.
The Archer was designed to be stronger against Max and Vehicle yet unless I am using 'hard counter' wrong, it seems that the engineer is still rather vulnerable in many cases.

Where did I say the Tankbuster should be nerfed?

But yeah taking MBT shells to your Liberator might be the first sign that you made a mistake in your approach.

Doesn't matter how well you plan your approach, if you are using the TB you are vulnerable to tank shells.

You have to both decelerate to a speed that will allow you to empty your whole magazine, as well as allow your gunner to reliably follow up depending on how durable your target is. You also must be flying low enough to actually deal decent damage considering the absurd damage degradation, pellet spread, bullet drop and low velocity.

These conditions make it so any pilot attempting a strafe run is highly vulnerable to tank rounds, if at least from a tank near the one the pilot is strafing.

That's because it's literal garbage. Reasoning based on a ranking doesn't make sense, neither does the fact that the board doesn't fully represent how many tanks and libs are killed by each other.

Sure if you want the kill there's a risk. But why not be happy with just a single high speed pass knowing you did some damage to the tank or maybe scared it off?

After all you tell AA users they should be happy with that, that we aren't using a "hard counter"

And of course anecdotal evidence of players whose only experience with Liberator is being on the receiving end is far less faulty than the stat I presented.

Let me put it this way. One stat alone might be faulty but when ALL statistical data of different types all point out to the same conclusion then that conclusion is far more likely to be true than your anecdotal conjecture.

You claim Lib is OP yet it is least used vehicle
You claim Lib is OP yet is has lower KPH than tanks
You claim Lib is OP yet it is more likely to die to MBT than MBT is likely to die to Lib

Now what is more likely: that all the stats are faulty or are you simply biased because you have no flying experience?

Maybe if AA required the same risks and skill as the TB, then sure.

As long as it remains as cheap and easy it has no place in being super strong.

Good job putting words in my mouth. I made three posts in this thread.

The first one is true. AA is a deterrent, so the only true counter a Lib has is itself, or a swarm of ESFs.

The second one is also true. Looking at a monthly list of what has died to what is not something that should be used for balancing purposes, or even arguments.

The third one is me rephrasing what someone else said to make them look dumb so I won't bother linking it.

Not once did I say the Lib needed a nerf.

There is something I'd like to know. What's it like living with a victim complex?

That's so subjective and irrelevant it doesn't merit a detailed response.

You guys honestly think every aspect of flying is THAT much more skilled than anything else in the game that we cannot even have a balance discussion. It's just absurd. Then you bemoan why you're called "Skyknights" and painted as elitists?

Sorry but "because...uhh skill!" isn't valid.

stats are indeed relevant. stats show ap prowler are easily the highest cause of vehicle death among mbts so obviously they must be the most dangerous tank to fight against

/s. if u used a prowler and vanguard for long enough, everytime ur in a prowler and see a vanguard close by on ur minimap u'll be screaming "im dead", and everytime ur in a vanguard and see a prowler close by u just press the "i win" button.

what Jubikus said about hard counter is entirely correct. there's nothing that can effectively take out libs, whereas every other vehicle has at least one "predator". the only way to kill libs is a lot of people concentrating on it

What you say holds true in 1v1 scenarios, Vanguard is the king of 1v1. But stats aggregate all combat scenarios not just 1v1 battles and overall Prowler is not worse than Vanguard.

Apologies.