Want to know why A2G has been a problem?

TB just needs to be nerfed so the one clip a tank disappears, or do you want it so your precious farm stays right?

So if the TB cannot 1 cl;ip a tank, then maybe its damage could be slightly increased along with that of the other so called useless guns.

At the moment libs have one weapon to rule them all, it has the most DPS in the game, coupled with the libs armor, well you're flying around in something that makes a Vanguard look weak.

Oh and its not 20 minutes, more like several hours (a flight).

Or conversely the Lib keeps all of its weapons in tact, no nerfing them, just lose 50% health /resistance to A2A nose guns, and direct fire G2A weapons.

the problem isn't that aircraft/tanks/ whatever are too powerful, the problem is they never finished the resource revamp system. as it is you can almost pull endlessly, taking out a lib or esf, or tank should be an accomplishment, they shouldn't be back in 45 secs. fix the resource system so can't always have your vehicle, problem solved. then all the pilots and tankers will play some infantry too.

The TB does need nerfing though, but not in it's A2G capabilities, but in it's A2A ones. It's far far too effective vs other libs, valk and galaxys to not be considered OP. Even ESF but it is mighty tricky to do, but it can be done. It makes every other gun not worth using because it can literally do everything.

At the same time as an A2A nerf the SPUR needs to be made a proper A2A gun, rather than the joke it is now.

A2G and Libs are only a "problem" because people refuse to admit that aircraft are the counter to aircraft and learn to fly. It's built into the game's design, whether we like it or not.

The TB really isn't that OP. Not gonna debate why (too tired atm, maybe later), but it's not.

The Spur, and the Vektor for that matter, are trash. I've tried so many times to like the spur, and I... Just can't.

I'd say it's probably the worst weapon in game next to the Flare Gun and the Pelter rockets (maybe even the VLG, but at least that has some punch to it).

The both need damage and velocity buffs, even if the damage buffs come in the form of tweaked resist values.

I see no one has mentioned the almost indestructible Galaxy so far.........and for a big lumbering Sky whale it is frustrating to see it out-run my Phoenix rockets as well. As pure infantry I find the Lib hard, but not impossible, to bring down and hovering esf are a serious nuisance if they get their timing right and scoot before I can get my RL deployed. But hey, these are just tactics. you gotta deal with them. I didn't know that esfs are apparently ineffective against other classes of aircraft, perhaps that should be looked at if it is correct.

Glad to see an infantry player with his head on his shoulders... Here, let me fix that for you

They're plenty effective, most people just don't know how to properly engage targets in the air.
I regularly down libs and galaxies in an ESF, usually on my own, and I'm at best a mid-tier pilot, nothing special by any means.

If I can do it, others should be able to.

it's not correct. it's just that the few people playing libs that are any good, have had to play against ESFs every minute (about 2 ESF fights per minute, usually) for about 4500 hours now. so then when people like scr1n get in the air, they get roflstomed and come to complain about balance on the forums.

the fact is that at the highest levels of A2A, 1 ESF always has the advantage over a Lib, though a 3/3 lib with a good crew provides enough pressure that the best A2A pilots have something close to a challenge. however, 2 competent ESF can use tactics (bait and switch) to weaken and then finish off a crewed, well played Lib pretty easily with much lower individual risk. 3+ ESF or any other combination of aircraft is what most of us call a 'gank squad' and relies on numbers to spread out the risk and lower the TTK (and aim requirement) significantly against any single skilled target, including Libs.

the disadvantage to ganking is that they share the XP and since they're almost always bads, they give up, hit trees, or just have to go because their mom has dinner ready. so those of us that fly all the time will still be flying after their numbers dwindle, and then we get to see what happens when gankers are caught alone.

Ah no.


I'm looking at the game design.


ESF's are supposed to be the natural counter to Galaxies & Liberators, but clearly after 3 years & many nerfs this hasn't been the case.

If the Vektor was given some of that aiming ability it was supposed to get during the Liberator "buffs" it would be nearly perfect.

The way I see it the Vektor is intended to be the Liberator's A2A nosegun, but because of it's bad maneuverability it can't really use it anyway.

Maybe then we could change the Spur to that 30mm rotary HE cannon we were promised during Beta for AI work.

The Tank Buster is a weapon on a very large, loud, noticeable craft that requires you to be nearly point blank to be effective. Not only that, but you can only 1-clip tanks if you get to their rears.

Here, let me show you a video of why the tank buster is actually effective.




Notice how every single tank he faces is farming like a complete moron and hardly half of them even turn around when he starts shooting. Take particular care to look for the scene where he demolishes 3 Skyguards in a row, all within 100m of each other. Had they any brains at all, or coordination, they would have noticed the Liberator taking out their armor from behind and focused them down and killed him within 5 seconds.

And yes, the Tank Buster has the highest DPS for an AV weapon in the game. It also happens to be on the front of one of the slowest, least maneuverable vehicles in the game that gets attacked by pretty much everything that sees it, and to use it puts you in the range of HA rocket launchers, MBT cannons, Basilisks, and any AA in the hex.

And a few hours, one flight? That's hardly enough to grasp the scale of the Liberator. Fly it for a few days, then reconsider your statement. Get a good gunner, try and go to large fights, get rekt by lone ESF's, you know, experience the Liberator as a whole. Don't cherry pick one perceived OP point based off a few hours flight.

ESF's have a distinct advantage against Liberators, but it's not a hard counter. An ESF who caters his loadout towards Liberator killing will have quite a significant advantage, and could even be considered a "hard counter". But an ESF who is ground pounding will have difficulty facing a 3/3 Liberator at close range, the effective range of the Liberator.


Looks like working as intended.

I haven't seen a lot of Valk's so I can't comment on that, but as for Galaxies I sort of agree, but I see some problems.

The main problem I see is that Galaxies are a bit too tanky as is ATM, and a good Liberator crew is often one of the only means you have other then plain suicide runs with another galaxy to take one down. And with a Galaxy pooping troops down directly on your bases capture point, it makes a it a lot harder to take a base.

As for ESF's, really it takes effort on the ESF's part to get TB'd. The Lib is very slow and slow-turning, and if an ESF gets tank-busted it was likely sitting still for far too long.

It it really is such a big deal, maybe we could add a spin up for the TB(Not a ramp up, a spin up with a flat delay before firing at max RoF) that negates stealth while spun up. The only reason you'd get TB'd then is because you had major tunnel vision.

I personally will jump to engage a lib 95% of the time. I enjoy the fun of fighting an experienced dalton or even shredder lib. Galaxies are another story however. I just ignore them as they simply take too much ammo/time to down, and as its about to die they will all just bail out anyway so really no incentive for me or other ESF pilots, that I know personally, to bother with them. Maybe should add a weak spot or something on the top idk or boost ESF nosegun damage against it.

I think a needed change would be to remove the safe fall effect while a Galaxy is burning. You could still bail before, but it's something at least.

I pretty much agree with everything said here. I would add that HA G2A lockons should get a similar treatment to the Flak suggestions above. Turn G2A lockons into something similar. For example, VS get an AA Lancer varient. NC get a high speed rail gun. TR get something akin to the striker (w/ fire-then-lock mechanics) but with much higher velocity. So now HA G2A RLs are accurate, but still require skill to land shots, and a skillful pilot can make themselves a harder target by moving erratically.

I'd also suggest giving them a slight damage increase but a range decrease. Make it so they're a real danger to A2G aircraft doing CAS runs, but A2A dogfights happening 400m away shouldn't have to worry about them. The only truly long range options should be Vehicle/MAX/Wall turret mounted weapons.

Lastly, G2A units in general (be they Infantry, MAX, or Vehicle) should have higher rendering priority than most other units for aircraft - IOW, when in an aircraft, G2A units will render for you sooner, and from a farther distance, than other similar units. Nobody likes to be damaged by enemies that don't render on your screen.

oh no not again. This & of gamers destroyed MAX AA back in day an their at it again . Aircraft and tanks are the single most powerful weapon systems in existence. They are SUPPOSED to be. But as we all know. MAX AA was destroyed because the flyers didn't see it as fair that they could be killed.They ground found it unfair that air could use (shock horror) rockets to kill them. So rockets were ruined. Then it wasn't fair tanks would use HE shells to destroy a soldier (my personal fav) so HE was nerfed into ground.

Now we have this....

I don't see an issue with G2A lockons. I don't even run flares anymore because of how easy they are to avoid, or just tank them with fire suppression and nuke the HA for their hubris. These weapons don't escalate well against ESFs, they could with EXTREME coordination though. Such as a SL telling his peeps where to look, when to fire... yeah that won't happen. And if it does, congrats they deserve the kill... waste 5-6 peeps to kill one... yeah.

They do escalate well against Libs and Galaxies, but its at a linear rate. One HA is annoying, 2 HA's is doubly annoying, and so on. It takes 5 to threaten a Lib or Gal.. That's fine That's ONE Lib or Gal threatened at a time. Flak users threaten the entire sky due to the quickness they can engage multiple targets.

With that said, I won't say no to your suggestions. I did say choices are good after all. And a new Ground to Air ES weapon system set could be interesting. Limited in its scope of course.. currently. But fixing that is an issue for another thread.

ESFs completely don't suck, A good ESF can take down a good lib solo. The lib pilot AND gunners have to be better than the ESF pilot by a large margin -- the margin getting larger as the skill of both vehicle's occupants increases.

Also -- AA is not a deterrent. It hurts, it forces the vehicle out of the airspace (which is more than a 'deterrent') and it kills ESF and any vehicle that hangs around long enough to do anything.

so according to your personal definition only fantasy spells like shockwaves with knockback are deterring, but anything that deals damage is more than that? No.
In practice deterrent is something that is good enough to keep a threat at bay, maybe, but not powerful enough to reliably kill it and AA in PS2 absolutely fits the bill. I've seen too many libs capitalizing on the fact that they have a guaranteed 30s time-to-die to a skyguard to know better and the whales are on another level of tough, these sumbtches.
You know perfectly well that for example skyguards are trash tier of spm and kph.

Something that almost every player agree on the fact that AA is stupid as a deterrent but sure keep pulling AA, i will have fun farming you in my f**king flash for how bad your weapons are.