The Heavy needs a rework.

If everyone could read the exact class description, that would be great.

So it can't take cover?.

cover is for cowards x'D just give him even more health and shield and make the shield even better to compensate for the lack of cover that change would bring x'D

but to be honest... i'd like tho know which kind of HA they have problems with.. VS, NC or TR because as VS HA ( first time i used it) i didn't had any struggle before the update where the NS Striker was released but as TR HA ( my main ) i had sometimes problems against good medics in 1v1 situations for example. ( yes skill is still involved so it can't be the class itself as said before every class can be OP if used in the right hands)

No, obviously LMGs are NOT for "suppressive fire." They don't suppress. They kill. The proof is in the pudding. However, IF you were right and we said that 'LMGs are designed for suppressive fire' then the argument that HA is OP loses even more water -- they would have guns designed to suppress and not kill and as such are weaker in direct confrontation. Ergo..(by your logic) HAs are not OP despite health advantages because they don't have killing weapons. (See that? You hurt your own argument there.)

However, the game is designed a certain way -- no matter how you FEEL the game should be designed that is not the case. LMGs kill. Not as fast as Carbines close and not as accurately as Assault rifles from far but they kill servicably (is that a word?) well at many ranges. Doesn't matter what LMGs are 'usually' designed for now does it. The nut of the question is what they are designed to do and how well they do it here in this game.

You are under this huge mistaken that I am arguing against HA changes. I am not. I have not said 'HA is fine!' at all. However, I AM saying that the above idea that "HAs are not designed for frontlines in this game" is an erroneous statement and you can't make an argument based on that. And we can now add "LMGs are designed for suppressive fire" to that (which I know is not exactly what you said -- but what you are implicitly saying for your argument to hold any water). Nice job little buddy.

Also, I don't feel all of the original post I responded to is false. Simply that one statement hence the tongue in cheek 'your false is false.' There is a lot of other reasonable opinion in there and I didn't want to belittle that.

See above Jubi. I am not saying HA is fine or doesn't need changes. I am simply saying that they ARE the frontline class obviously as that is what they do best. It's totally within the realm of reason that they are OP, game-breaking, and/or overly versatile. There are PLENTY of great arguments for changing heavies to counter perceived power imbalances. I am not arguing against that possibility. I am simply saying that "not designed as a frontline unit" is not an argument.

However, I don't think that the shield gens being changed is a good reason to say that heavies were "not designed as frontline units back in the day." Heavy's ability to stand on the frontline, take damage, push up, and fight head to head kinda implies frontline design regardless of shield gen killing mechanics or not. They have always excelled at that. There are many many reasons that the shield gen mechanic changes could have been implemented since(which I will not go into here.)

Regardless, the proof is in the pudding fellas. The heavy is the frontline class currently as shown by the fact that they do it. If you feel that they shouldn't be -- make a reasoned argument as to why DMG should change it. If it is good enough and lacking tons of logical holes DBG may even take note and discuss it internally.

wall o'text deleted. same old HA ramblings...

get gud? double facepalm... HA is the easiest class in the world to play, no skill with the instant win button. HA is pathetically easy to play next to LA or medic

sounds like OP hit a nerve on this HA.

suffice it to say that PS2 is a FPS at it's basic level. 1 v 1 encounters happen often. The HA has twice the health, twice the magazine size and a rocket launcher, not to mention med kits which can be spammed. HA is in need of a significant nerf.

When players can't get a revive or ammo, and everyone is playing HA, this is the reason.

In any other FPS, HA would ONLY have heavy weapons and have a much slower movement speed, not twice the health.

Aren't LMGs designed for suppressive fire?

Consider the RPK, which is an LMG that is essentially an AK pattern weapon with a longer and heavier barrel.

Why did they design it with a longer and heavier barrel? So that it could put out sustained fire much more reliably.

Why was it to put out sustained fire? For suppression.

I think most LMGs are designed with suppression in mind, or putting out high volumes of fire not with the primary intent to hit and kill a target, but to freak them the heck out.

I think you may be high, if you really think a HA with 1 rocket is... at that point just take away the rocket launcher.
Things to be done with 1 rocket:
Shoot down ESF= X
Kill Max= X
Kill Infantry= X (Usually, low splash and flak)
Kill a Lightning= X
Kill a Harasser= X
Kill a Flash= O (But honestly LMG is better for that)
Kill a Lib= X (Nothing but an AA vehicle or burster max kill those anyways.... and tank shells if its a low flying tank buster A-hole)
Kill a Gal= X (Though this usually takes way more than 1 HA anyways)
Kill a MBT= X (This is another reason I dont believe heavy needs a nerf- Engy and LA are way better at Anti-Tank)
____
Besides every class is op in its own way *_*
-Medics are basically god or necromancers depending on how you view it + AR
-MAX suits are the embodiment of Cpt. Rippley (gets impossible jobs done) + Chesty Puller (can turn a situation around) + Erwin Rommel (can assert strategic dominance)+ Joan of Arc (Can inspire nearby troops) + A-Team (Expensive to hire and not everyone is as good as then -not certed-)
-HA can do a little of everything 'discount max'- need some cheap, mobile, ranged AT? AA? Sure- Need a mobile LMG to push the lines? Why not! Need to kill a Lib? No... sorry- What about a harasser? Not usually.... More than 1 tank? Go get the MAX and Engies
-Engy with any amount of in depth thought the engy becomes the most arguably op class (unless Betelgeuse because ammo): It has arguably the best rocket launcher- an explosive puppet that does a ton of damage- balanced by snipers, Engy can replenish ammo, AT Mines that stay after death and kill now kill maxes, AI and Auto turrets for good and okayish anti infantry, and it can fix vehicles! Talk about diverse its almost better at doing everything the HA is meant to do!! (But I dont actually think its more op than any other class)

-Light Assault I think every tanker fears the infamous C4 Fairy, Human Magrider, and Man Plane- Even for assaulting infantry this is a good class with access to the smoke grenades and a jump jet for exiting enemies lines of sight.
-Infiltrator Almost a direct counter to the engineers turrets, Capable of sniping, Capable of recon, Capable of sabotage, Capable of CQB ambushes for destruction of an entire squad if they dont pay attention, Capable of the stealth flash, EMP Grenades- but like a spy once its caught its over (low health)
____
Lastly addressing suppression fire- Not useful unless they fear dying from it or feeling pain- In a game the stream of bullets must pose a threat i.e. 'if I go through there I'll be swiss cheese before I make it to cover'- issue there being thatd mean 3 bullets need to kill them at a suppressing range so.... huge cof+sniper damage only solution but then at point blank its horrendously overpowered as is a real automatic at short range range(as long as recoil isnt an issue, which in real life is much more the case making burst and semi the better options but in a game those factors are very 'arcade'y)- point being suppressive weapons dont work in games even the max will only scare back infantry until their leaders encourage them with "the medics will RES you just push in and crush them"

Short and sweet verdict: Suppression only works in real life because of fear of pain and death, it might also work in games where death matters... but again in Planetside that factor is basically gone; the only thing that fears dying in the least is a MAX suit and an LMG wont keep them back- thought of tank mines and C4 will
___
in terms of ease most of the people I know who played HA drifted away from it for a handful of reasons- Not best AT(look at engy or LA), not a truely viable AA(burster max or skyguard/turrets), Not mobile enough for 'assaulting' ...
here is my personal experience with classes and their uses:
-1-3 Enemy vehicles Hossin or little movement space with few good escape routes: HA
-BioLab: Medic 4 res grenades
-Watch Tower/large outpost: LA with drifters, smoke grenades, and C4; infiltrator+smg, darts, emp; MAX(AI/AA)
-Small Outpost: Infiltrator with smg, darts, grenades
-Cluttered base lots of enemy vehicles/ low floating air: Light assault C4 Fairy
-Open field battle with no tanks/air: Medic+ Reaper DMR or HA
-Small battle room clearing(32<): HA
- Lots and LOTS of and enemy air and ground: MBT+Engy with AV turret+Mines, Friendly skyguard demanded of a friend
-Amerish: LA (occasional MAX or Sniper infil/ Harasser Engy)
-Hossin: Infiltrator or LA (occasional heavy)
-Preferred class when stuck in 1v1: LA+Motion X-Bow or Infiltrator
-

That's one of the biggest issues is that the game is designed (and to an extent balanced) in a "whole world" environment however, the reality is that to the individual, balance is nothing more than those sandbox encounters that we measure ourselves against. Every overpowered element in this game, past and present, had the same "whole world" justification that did nothing more than create consternation and in hindsight, was flawed.

Consequently, you would be wise to play HA the majority of the time as it gives you an advantage over other classes and ensures you are not at a disadvantage when you encounter another HA. I've changed my ways. I recently got a directive carbine and in HINDSIGHT, it was a mistake and a huge waste of time.

I should have been focusing on the LMG directive. I was stubborn and stupid, but I learned my lesson.

In any case, play what you want, but know that unless you play HA you will be at a disadvantage, especially during the microcosm encounters that IS the game to you or I.

"My statement was simply to point out that the Heavy assault class wasnt designed to be the front line soldier"
"the Heavy assault class wasnt designed to be the front line soldier"
"the Heavy assault class wasnt designed to be the front line soldier"

The sky is made of cheese. The moon is a big marble made for the amusement of space aliens.

Those statements make as much sense as the rest of what is above.

It brakes down to this . HA function as the game was designed . This is a MMOFPS designed similar to MMORPGs . It is the ' Tank " class . The other classes were not designed to easily take down a HA .
That being said . It is designed WRONG . If SOE or DBG wants people to play the other classes they need to be able to kill as well as the HAs . My personal gripe with HAs is they don't even flinch with a big RPG on there shoulder while getting shot in the face , allowing them to make accurate hits before they can be token down ( place screaming rant here ) .

Game makers find out that if classes are not able to be played solo it fails . Sad that they haven't figured it out after 3 years .

Isn't Tank Class here are actual tanks?

Try again next month maybe.

The class description will be the same and 1v1 balance will still mean nothing.

Citation please. Name these nebulous wonder games... that I notice you are NOT playing.

It's weird that I have to quote myself to you. But I specifically addressed your question already.

Are LMGs designed for suppressive fire? Not really. They are designed to fire. Ask any vet. Do they get used as suppressive fire? Sure. Do they get used to strait up waste groups of people? That too. Again -- this is all real life (and in real life they kill plenty.)

But as I was pointing out to the guy before me -- this is not about real life. This is about the current mechanics in this game. Specifically that one cannot say that "LMGs in Planetside 2 are designed for suppressive fire." I have yet to be directed to any dev stating that that is their intended role. On top of that they function as killing weapons (only having slightly less DPS than carbines and ARs.) The LASHER is a suppressive weapon. Do I say this because I magically know how the lasher was designed? No. I say this because I see how it functions. Proof is in the pudding -- and this pudding shows LMGs being designed to be lethal. Until a Dev corrects this statement (and thereby admit that they poorly designed the LMG) no amount of Rhetoric will change that.

To all of you making these arguments: Again, I am (and some other posters are) not arguing that HAs are OP or Fine. I am simply saying that we can only infer HA's designed role and all empirical evidence says 'Frontline' 'Direct Confrontation' 'Second Most Versatility'. Argue the OPness or not OPness of HAs from a reasonable standpoint and not some arbitrary feeling of how it should be.......or G T F O.

You know I said "Supressive fire" not in the way that heavies CANNOT kill, but in the way by my meaning of discouraging attack/stop the other team from poking out. And by logic, isn't that what it means? And seriously, LMGs aren't supposed to be a all rounder kind of soldier, but one that supports the team by holding the ground, prevent enemies from moving forward, and prevent enemy movement. The game just represents it this way and MAX should really fit in to that role, but is blocked out of the spotlight by HAs. Have you even seen why LMGs do? They suppress enemies, they DO KILL, but they are to discourage enemy movement in the end. But heavy has too many roles.

In that case no. Death in this game is of less consequence than other games and significantly less so than in real life. Hence you aren't discouraging anyone. You are actually painting a target on your back. Take the Lasher, it does splash damage. Hence it forces people to move either out in the open to get shot, or back away in which case suppression is effective. However, just firing rounds past a corner is going to get you very little in terms of preventing enemy movement. Simply because the LMG has lower DPS and will lose head to head to a carbine or AR if a heavy doesn't have their shield up. There are no suppression mechanics like some other tactical games (for example BF4.) There are no wounding mechanics. ETC.

Now you want to argue that the LMG is too good considering the platform that has it? (HA) Feel free to do so. I won't argue with that. You are probably right as far as MAXs are concerned. However, this weird psuedo "it was designed to be x because I think it should be so therefore that is LOGICALLY how the devs intended it!" mentality is ridiculous and impractical. It is the definition of immaturity.

I'm not even sure how logical our devs are.

Can we not strawman this to "Thats what heavies are supposed to do" anymore

And can we not continue to minimize the importance of killing in ps2

I feel like this thread and every other heavy thread falls to nothing when this is thrown out too much

The heavy is part of a fundamental problem when it comes to the balance of this game.
Easy access gone to far.
By trying to make all classes and all vehicles as easy to access and play as possible directly by all players they made the game harder to balance.
There are to many units that fill multiple roles instead of being specialised
The Heavy being one of the most noticeable ones since they are the main line unit, assault, support, and heavy class in one without really losing anything in the process. They are like an ultimate class :/

On the contrary.

Can people read the class description and stop projecting what they feel it should be. Can people stop maximizing the importance of killing to discredit the capabilities of the other classes.

Of which they do fine.