Why do Vanu win more alerts?(answer inside)

It was on Emerald. VS probably lose the most alerts with even pop because the NC and TR are salty about how often VS wins.

Even so, It's worth asking the question if you should flame an empire (here: VS) for playing an alert when the other two actively decide -not to participate-. Compared this to, say a football/soccer match where one side only bothers to put 5 of the 11 players on the field. Is it the fault of the other team that used the full 11 players that they won? Or is it because the first team didn't even -try-?

For PS2, if the TR and NC are having fun when not playing against VS in the alert, that's fine but by doing so they/you forfeit the right to complain about them winning with overpop - it's not actually their doing, it's "yours" (TR and NC as a whole).

Hope that made sense.

I wonder what the arguments will be about when the new victory conditions are released? After two years of playing I'm still just in it for the fights so I don't have a position on this. But reading the forum arguments is fun and sometimes illuminating as well.

Because NC prefer fighting TR, and TR prefer fighting VS, so the VS gets an easy ride and whoever they are attacking at a given moment is being double-teamed. That's probably partly because of all the Betelgeuse farmers, which is a cross-server issue, and partly because VS are still invisible in the dark.

This would be true if the VS didn't insist on covering themselves with Christmas lights to the extent where they are walking LED poles. It's very easy to spot VS soldiers in the dark because they are littered with little blue lights, or at least more so than NC and TR soldiers. The Magrider also has a massive great lamp underneath it, and half of the Scythe, (the rear, where the supposed Vanu alien engines are), is constantly bright blue. This argument overall is a silly one though when you can simply Q spot people, or equip an IRNV scope. When it's too dark to see Vanu soldiers in the shadows, it's also too dark to see TR and NC. Once you play all the factions, you'll figure that out. Otherwise it's a "noob" complaint, along with the infamous No Bullet Drop.

How come you never hear complaints about TR Infiltrators being clad in all black? You'd figure this would be totally overpowered if VS being purple and teal was a factor...

You're funny, saying the Vanu are easy to spot with their essentially black stock armor. Do you take classes?

You're funnier, considering that you don't actively keep your finger on the Q button and press it whenever you see something move, or that you completely disregarded the actual part of the post you quoted when I explicitly stated that the VS are covered in loads of little lights, on their guns and on their armour also, which are nearing an equivalent of advertising oneself to the keen eye with a giant luminescent billboard saying "I'm here!". It's not like the VS have a personal rave every time they fire a gun, or have bright, neon blue tracers that linger in the air, pointing directly back to them. Especially their rocket launcher trails: it's not like they radiate light and have a glowing aura behind them, or anything.

Do you have eyes that recognise motion and/or work vaguely, or a Q button on your keyboard?

ironically, i dropped into an alert on connery as a VS and the only VS platoons that were on line were not playing the alert.


needless to say, the VS were losing badly

Except this is all anecdotal and you really have no way of backing up said claim. Are we really to believe, that after multiple years of this game being out, across multiple servers, the NC just don't care about alerts? That across all servers, the VS just "care" more than the other factions? That's nonsense, and the sooner we stop arguing balance on anecdotal BS, the sooner we can have an actually balanced game that's enjoyable for all three factions.

The 'mountain' of data showing VS winning all the time goes back over a year ago. There's been patches since then. There's been population shifts since then. To put it shortly, October 2015 is different than 2014.

For example, a year ago, the VS on Connery had a severe overpop late at night, this contributed to many of those alert wins. Now they've split between TR and NC and from what I've seen of the late night populations, VS has been tanking below 25%.

So your 'mountain' of data is no longer relevant if the same is shown on the other servers. But here's something more important:

Last month's stats 28SEP15-28OCT15:

654 VS wins 38%
421 NC wins 25%
634 TR wins 37%

1709 Total Alerts (no draws)

TR and VS are within 1% of each other (1.2% to be exact). That's well within the margin of skill, luck, cooperation that causes different conditions to happen. If anything, the NC is still lagging behind. That might change in the next patch.

Something tells me I should start leading platoons on my Emerald TR/NC again...

Well besides how VS aren't winning more prime time alerts than the other factions (some people spent the time to sort through alerts in a prime time window, last seen with Miller as an example and previously across all servers - and it doesn't paint a 50% VS win rate, not even close to), the whole premise you present isn't actually what I addressed. What I pointed out is that if a faction is rolling an alert with 65% pop, it's not so much their fault for trying to win as the other two actively deciding not to participate being the main reason it's happening.

But to answer your question, yes. That is exactly what such a dataset (which isn't what we have if limiting our selection to the last few months and prime time only - effectively ignoring graveyard shift and daytime alerts) would indicate.


Just to make it -PERFECTLY- clear, I did not make any comments on empire balance based on alert wins as I know it's a meaningless metric for it. So please, don't try to make it look like I said something I didn't. All I did say was that -given the situation- that was outlined, with VS overpopping an alert continent with 2/3rds of total cont pop (and the same would be true if it was NC or TR, but the previous example had VS in it so that's what I used for consistency) with the other two empires, here represented by TR and NC playing on a non-alert continent, then the "overpop" isn't actually the fault of the VS trying to win an alert as much as it is the fault of TR and NC having decided not to. And that is all.

You're free to disagree, but if you do at least keep your "rebuttal" topical.

All that said, there -are- differences between the empires in willingness or desire to play for alerts. There's many reasons for this (individually minor reasons that only make a big splash when seen together), but they're there. While not universally true, the stereotypes of the "MLG tryhard VS", the "milsim TR" and "too casual to care about the bigger picture NC" exist for a reason.

Infiltrators are expected to be invisible, and they aren't a major factor in most fights. TR standard infantry classes are far more visible than VS in low light conditions.

Did you know that it is a scientific fact that darker shades of red are the hardest colour to make out for the naked human eye in low-light conditions? Under some circumstances, more so than black and darker shades of grey?

But that's IRL, which doesn't take into account the screen, or that it isn't really 'low light conditions' for your eye (unless you're playing in a dark room), or the fact that a lot of dusk backgrounds in PS2 are purplish.

I play NC so I fight against those two factions and I'm telling you that VS is much harder to see in the dark.

Eh, what?

On Miller the NC often does band together and the leader chat drives you nuts with all the requests which are actually followed. They still lose.

And which faction you attack is a matter of strategy. Attacking the non-leading faction is (more often than not) a good way to win an alert, simply because you can take their territory. There's a reason they aren't leading, and that's because their population and tactics are worse at that moment!
And the moment you stall, you can always do a lightning attack at the leading faction, taking some territory they didn't expect you to take. This also means that the faction you were harrying will retake some area, but if you play it well you earn more territory back and kick the leading faction in the nuts.

Tho the NC do have the highest population they also have the highest drop off rate while the Vanu tend to retain more players this is why you see much more Br100 Vanu.

Vanus aren't that good when dawn come 20 minutes before the end of the alert!

To be fair neither us nor the NC like to fight Vanu on hossin our biggest advantage for the TR the prowler is almost useless there air is pretty crap too which leaves most of the fighting down to infantry which leaves everyone fighting millions of Vanu heavy assaults that have default camo that blends in with the dark dirt of hossin remarkably well and ridiculously well at night. This causes a snowball effect of many players not going to the alert the Vanu have the pop and whoever actually showed up is trying to fight outnumbered which increases the frustration they just leave. The alert you came from likely didnt start with you having nearly that much pop advantage but as the alert went on and people just quit and it grew because well who would have guessed people dont like getting farmed in massively 1 sided fights.

Then we've had different experiences. I play NC also, (I've had a multitude of NC characters in the past - all of which were deleted because I felt guilty for betraying my beloved VS), and I find VS much easier to see. However, this may be because I play VS as my main and hence know their geometry and silhouette shapes like the back of my hand, know their sounds and can identify different weapons simply from their tracers, and an well accustomed to where the lights are on VS soldiers are situated. On the other hand, as can also been seen in my signature, I don't play the TR because I want to get better at playing as the VS and also the NC - hence I have kept this NC character, and I don't really know what makes the TR tick like I do, (ish) the VS and NC.

I'm sorry for being rude, as well. I'm just sick to death of this argument. People will find a reason to complain about anything. What makes me laugh is that SOE intended for the VS to attack at night, and hence on the loading screens a while back it said "The VS attack at night, mostly...". It's a part of the lore. I also get fed up because the VS are literally covered with lights, their weapons produce the most distinct noise and brightest tracers, (and VS soldiers whip out the ol' disco ball with every bullet fired), which is why I find them easier to see - I'm more acquainted with where these lights are and their characteristics.

People have always enjoyed battering the VS verbally and begging for VS nerfs, (that's why I found it hilarious that the Orion got buffed, because all the whining that it was OP caused the developers to stick on their troll masks and make it even better) It's ridiculous. The fact that some people try to get our default camouflage nerfed, (as in, changed so that we can become more visible), is just one step too far for me. It's a joke. Yes, our default camouflages are harder to make out, though we are also the brightest and loudest Empire. Plus, if you're in these situations, you really should have the Q button ready to be pressed, and also fine tune your situational awareness.

I'm sorry for the rant, and for my devout hatred of these claims. Yes, there are genuine issues that the VS pose which are overpowered in relation to those of their counterparts. Though whining about default camouflage is just taking the biscuit!


*Breathes in and out slowly. Takes anger management pills. Goes on a pilgrimage to Machu Picchu to medidate and become one with nature, to relax, and to calm his soul. Returns*

It's okay... ...I'm fine... ...I'm fine...
Freaking VS hating underlings! Our black stock camouflage is an example of how we are evolutionary superior! Our science has discovered that black is better for night-time than other colours! With our new, dark, invisible spandex, we shall conquer all! Muhahahahahahahahaha!