[Suggestion] Please make TR AI mines more visible

Interestingly, Claymores have almost always outperformed other mines:



And from this data, there are two important points. The first was around 10/30/2014, where the Claymore got a huge spike in efficiency, finally dropping down to "normal" levels around 11/5. That was when Claymores were made totally invisible.

The other, more interesting, change was around 5/20/2015, when Claymore efficiency has increased to where it continues to be today. I assume it was some other bug introduced by the 5/19 patch, possibly when the lasers became invisible.

Huh. Looks like the VS aren't the only ones who make the "ignore the obviously imbalanced statistics, we're just better than you!" argument.

Which like the VS one, obviously begs the question of why the TR would somehow be better at mine placement than the other factions, particularly if all mines should be placed behind corners.

or maybe make the others....kill? we poor NC, VS have to assist our mines with a spitfire....

That's the thing though - with all three AI (and AT for this matter) mines: they take full advantage of the enemy's recklessness.
If you take recklessness out of the equation, the mine is useless.

The effectiveness of the 3 mines is shown pretty clearly in the stats.


aKPH over the last 5 months:

Claymore | KPH | Daily Average: 181.85
Bouncing Betty | KPH | Daily Average: 127.73
Proximity Mine | KPH | Daily Average: 121.33

Yeah essentially if you're placing a mine behind a doorframe you need to place 2 x BB or PM to equal the kill potential of 1 x Claymore. Even then the Claymore might be slightly more deadly due to the better trigger delay in that context.

The problem is TR mines effectively no longer have lights/lasers where as the NC and TR do so:

{=} TR mine
_ VS mine
_ NC mine

So visibility-wise VS/NC mines are probably as visabile during the day and more visible at night.

Also since the Claymore was buffed the kill zone generally favours the Claymore.

TR mine {=}########~~~~~~

VS/NC mine ~~~###_###~~~

When you consider the extra damage, the extra killzone and total range and the much faster trigger rate of the Claymore you can see why it outweighes its upright postion and givse a much higher aKPH statistically, because if you position it right a Claymore is always more likely to get a kill.



Personally I think VS/NC mines should have their trigger delay dropped a little and see how that goes.

Alright, let's do that, IF:

1. TR get a 200 damage model weapon
2. TR get a 0.75ADS LMG
3. TR get a Lancer/Raven infantry equivalent
4. Mosquitoes can land on other ESFs and kill them while only losing half their helath
5. etc other stuff that NC and VS have that TR don't have.

Long story short: VS and NC have plenty of other nifty stuff that is loads better than inconspicuous mines.

You could also try wearing flak armour, or run as a infil with EMP grenades. But common sense and awareness are the best counter to claymores. I get plenty of kills to clays. In fact one of my rules is if that it worked, put another one there. I often get 3 or 4 kills with the same player with the mine in the exact same spot. You'd think if they die once to a mine in one spot, they'd maybe slow down a little next time. And certainly if they die twice in the same place, they'd not do the exact same thing again, but they do.

But on the other hand I see plenty of enemy players come in cautiously and/or shoot my clays even if they're quite well hidden.

That probably actually shows in the stats, as the Claymore is much easier to hide and much better when hidden.


1 x BB or PM behind the doorframe of a building probably equals something like 10-25% of a kill - as the killzone won't cover the entire doorway and with the trigger delay a player can actually sprint through the killzone (or even the blastzone entirely) and be out of it before the mine detonates (with a PM/BB it is actually possible to hear the trigger, stop and manage to just back out of the killzone before it goes off - with a Claymore delay there's no possiblity of that).


1x Claymore is probably more like 25-50% of a kill in the same situation - as its killzone will cover the entire doorway and its lower trigger time means people generally can't run through it and be clear before it hits them.

The thing is though Claymore use to perform worse than PM & BB, but since they were buffed they are now performing better than PM & BB by much more than the margin when they were worse.

I don't think people would be complaining (much) if Claymores were performing 10% or 20% better, but they are actually performing more like 70% better!

Your post makes absolutely no sense at all.

First this thread is about the Claymore the AI mine of the TR and not about the Prox mine which belongs to the VS.

Second: If you just confused the names and actually talked about the Claymore your statement that it was not changed is just wrong. The visbility of the Lasers was reduced in the past. Since then Claymores have been absolutely annoying and are almost impossible to avoid.

When I play my TR Char almost every Claymore I place results in a kill. It feels like my Bouncing Bettys on my NC char have about a 30% chance to kill someone. They are mostly seen by enemys with at least some awareness and when they explode its often only an assist that I get.

To anyone who says that you just have to check a doorway in order to avoid Claymores: This is not true because even the porcess of checking a doorway most often gets you into the blast radius of the mine which will kill you without warning and explosion delay.

So yes the claymore needs better visibility. Right now it can be extremely frustrating to play against the TR when there are many people laying these things.

Can the VS and NC get much higher DPS with their tank and secondary AV weapon, plus an ability that ramps it up even further please?

Additionally, I am an awful pilot, but even I would have to be mentally AFK to allow another ESF to land on me. I don't see any reliable practical application for this.

TR AI mines are way more easy to hide than NC and Vanu ones.
But...Just take a bit more care of your movements when you know that you're fighting TRs ?

And which part of the original post did you miss? He was complaining the TR mines are too invisible, while VS and NC can be easily seen.

Used to play VS, did good with the proxy mines, and often got frustrated by how easily some guys survived it just because they carelessly sprinted on them.
I've been a TR for months now, place my claymores just as well as my proxies, but oddly enough, my SPK ("shot" per kill) statistic on the DA site before it was down was almost twice as low as it was with proxy mines.

Considering how limited the supply is, and how i felt that my PMs (or enemy BBs) underperformed previously, it feels to me that the PMs/BBs are underpowered ( in damage/activation time) rather than the Claymores being overpowered.

There was a point where Claymores weren't as effective but it's only barely recorded by the Oracle of Death. If you scale back to view "All" you can catch a glimpse of it prior to October 2013. That was around the time the devs started working on the "exploding from behind" issues with the mine. If you check the Uniques for it around that time, you'll note that it also appears that the VS and the NC actually stopped using their mines as frequently, while the Claymore remained at previous use-levels.

Other interesting things to note is that the Average BR's of the anti-personnel mines have always been on a steady increasing trend, sometimes these mines generate Vehicle and Aircraft kills (I have no clue), and the Proximity Mine has rather consistently had the most Playtime since the Implant update.

Also, oddly enough, the Bouncing Betty and the Proximity Mine have both achieved a single Headshot Kill each in April and in June of 2015, respectively.

Every single claymore kill i have had in almost 3 years has been lols. Not a single one did i think "damn i got that guy good"

More like "another kill courtesy of another clown".

I'm getting roughly the same number of kills from my AI mines on all factions (I hide them round door jambs and rocks and stuff) so lights or sticking up higher are not usually issues. So, Claymore does more damage though only in a certain direction. the others will damage someone coming from any direction And potentially hit more than one person apssing by on either side - I know my experience is not statistically representative but hey, they all work for me. Make everything the same (like all those silly threads about LMGs being the same and tanks being the same and Maxes being the same etc. etc.) and soon the only difference will be the uniform.

Mines kill when people are running around not caring.

So we can conclude that vs and nc have more headless chickens than TR.

I think the main difference is that BB/PM work ok in the chuck and run method, but realitiscally that is not a big killer these days.

Where as with experienced and intelligent placement Claymores generally are much more deadly.

I don't think they are over-deadly, though, just that BB/PM need to close the gap.



I think if DBG messed with the trigger delay on BB/PM to bring it down closer to Claymores it would probably help - although BB/PM will always need some delay because of their difference in explosion shape.

excuse me, what? Claymores used to have fat green lazors visible for miles and betty and proxy didn't have their own blinkenlights. The "balance" change was adding lights to mines that already have to be placed in plain view (NC/TR) and removing all traces of warning from the instagib one that can be placed around corners (TR) and now claymores are the spanish inquisition of anti-personel mines.

Guys mines kill people who run and gun with 0 observation skills.

So really we should just buff the vs and nc mine damage and be done.

Careless people will still give kills and those who look out for them will still get rid of them.