[DISCLAIMER! THIS IS ALL MY PERSONAL OPINION! DON'T GET YOUR JIMMIES RUSTLED BECAUSE I DISAGREE WITH SOMETHING YOU SAY! We're all entitled to our own opinions, so please be kind and try to see it from my point of view, as I will try to do the same.] Well, it came down to this. I expect this to come with a lot of resistance (And it's definitely not going to happen because DBG likes their money), since some of the best weapons come from NS (Commissioner, NS-15M, a decent amount of other infantry weapons, vehicle turrets are also pretty good) but this faction is incredibly bland, boring, unimaginative and in the end, came to the point where it made the dev team lazy. We're just getting tons of weapons which are clumps of others' empires' stats combined into one weapon that's not unique nor fun to use. I'm actually not going to talk about NS vehicle weapons (MBT/Harasser/Sunderer turrets) since they actually do something no other weapon does and are in some way actually unique and satisfying to use (Then again, ES would be better). Another one is the Archer, it's excellent against MAXs, can do minor deterrence against ESFs and light armor, but that's it. Has it's niche and doesn't do too much (I would still love ES variants of it though). So here's why NS sucks and personally see why should it be removed. 1. It has no soul It's very easy to notice that their weapons are literally what happens when you put most of TR, VS and NC faction traits together into one weapon (The increased mag size of TR (and for a few weapons increased reload speed), the highest minimum damage drop-off from NC and the extremely short reloads with pin-point aimbot accuracy from VS (the accuracy is actually better than VS)). The bland design is nothing special and feels dull. No unique ways of using NS weapons, no unique mechanics, just a bunch of stats clumped together. They don't provide any challenge nor have any skill ceiling, hence why I personally feel there's no satisfaction in using them. 2. Since NS is introduced, there's been no true work on faction diversity of weapons What's the last time we got true faction diverse weapons? They're awesome! Let's take an example of how much thought was put into them and their design/gameplay. The AF-4 Cyclone/Farmistice/Failidani. Armistice is supposed to be a CQC-oriented SMG that demolishes everything except shotguns. Outside of it though, it has some use with the forward grip and compensator, but else you're better off with something else. Cyclone is good at CQC, not as good as the other two, but it demolishes at close-mid range due to high damage and suprisingly high controllability. Eridani is supposed to be something in between the two. Or better yet, the A2G nose-guns. LPPA is a safety gun, you can just sit back, shoot and farm, but you won't get insane amount of kills unless your opponents are blind. Mustang AH is the other way around, requiring nearly suicidal flying, but the reward is an instagib and it wrecks MAX units. Banshees are something in between. Now let's compare the today's Vulcan/Aphelion/Mjolnir. Same way of using (Just get close and shoot), next to no difference in mechanics (The only thing that separates Aphelion from Vulcan is the charge shot, which isn't anything super special, else they function in the same way. The 4-round burst from the Mjolnir has incredibly similar limitations and functions as Vuclan/Aphelion). Nothing stands out like in the previous examples. It's just like using a re-skin of the Vulcan with a different mechanic. No real work has been put into faction variety and diversity since NS got released as a faction. Same goes for every NS weapon ever, nothing unique and interesting. Just create one boring weapon and **** it out to other factions for money! I honestly love the true examples of faction diversity, they made every faction awesome and unique, from the MBTs to ESFs to SMGs, those things added to each faction archetype, and altered in what way you play. You don't use the same strategy for flying a Mosquito and flying a Reaver, instead you're forced to adapt to the unique and interesting mechanics, and that's what made every faction fun to play instead of them being bland, repetitive NS style of things. 3. NS weapons are too good Before everybody pulls their pitchforks and tries to stab me, let me explain why they're too good. Let's take the Commissioner/Underboss for example. They are like CQC semi-auto sniper rifles, and at range they hit like battle rifles. Sidearms in general are your desperation/humiliation weapon, that can't match the power of a primary, but are more forgiving if you miss a shot or two and can serve a niche your primary weapon doesn't serve. The Blackhand is a well balanced, well rounded secondary weapon. It has the worst hip-fire, but has the most range. At CQC unless you RNG roulette, you're going to lose almost every time, but you whip anything at 40m+. Commissioner/Underboss combine the power of a primary, the hip-fire and mobility of pistol quality for only a longer reload, which isn't catastrophic considering the damage output. Same goes for NS primaries, they simply wear too many hats and end up doing everything excellently. They have next to no recoil and CoF bloom and one-tier damage drop-off (143-125), so they are better than dedicated long-range weaponry because you can just hold down the trigger and win (not to mention miles better at CQC), they combine the extended mags and short reloads, making them extremely good at continuous fire and they combine the mobility of SMGs with respectable hip-fire. The only thing they're not good at is rate of fire, but the extra mobility extends your opponent's TTK, so they're solid there too. There shouldn't be an ideal, good-all weapon in this game, since it gives no real reason to use anything else that does a similar/same job but takes more skill. Even the starter versatile weapons aren't very versatile, with them favoring/being weak at one range over others depending on faction you're playing. They all have significant faction-specific downsides/upsides too! Decimator is a straight upgrade over the standard dumbfire due to much lower time to kill on MAXs, tanks and aircraft. So much for sidegrades. TL : DR ; Does too much, too unimaginative and lazy, too bland and boring. Moar ES stuff plz. NS suks.
Well now, I've occasionally used NS weapons but I'm back to the ES versions on all carbines, LMGs, sidearms and RLs. Maybe the role of the NS armoury is to provide starter kit for new players - lower recoil and wider range of lock-ons but generally inferior to ES versions in RoF and in some cases TTK. I know easy to use weapons don't encourage new players to get better very quickly but frankly, learning to handle some of the starter ES weapons was a major frustration when I was new to the game. I don't understand why NS sidearms hit so hard (albeit their RoF is very low compared to their ES brethren). I'd be perfectly happy if NS was now confined to providing vehicles and vehicle weapons. The Archer is in a sort of class of its own and I don't know what to say about that.
Just some testing against magrider front. decimator 4 fire 5 destroy crow 7 fire 8 destroy shirke 6 fire 7 destroy hawk 7 fire 8 destroy phoenix 5 fire 6 destroy annihilator 7 fire 8 destroy
Although I wouldn't necessarily agree with removing NS stuff (it's a true playing field leveller after all) I do agree that stat tweaking is the dull route to diversity and more effort should be put into the uniques. I REALLY like the truly unique stuff that is fun - the Magrider maneuverability is fun and unique, the Phoenix 'turn yourself into a missile' is fun and unique (probably the most 'fun' thing in PS2). Have to say though - TR are somewhat lacking in the fun and unique department - with some very effective weaponry but nothing that I would give my eye teeth for. Unless you find lockdown fun !
If you can stand in front of a Magrider long enough to land all those shots and neither the driver nor the gunner kill you, I think you may have earned it.
Am I missing something here, because 5 shots with the decimator is 6675 damage and with the dumb fires (in your case here the shrike) 6 shots is 6810.
That is why I asked, because I don't know if the decimator has a higher armor piercing percentage like the Phoenix. It does apparently, though can't find out how much.
While I don't think removing the NS stuff we already have is a sound idea; its really too late for that. I certainly agree that no more (or very little) should be added, and instead more ES flavor, unique and interesting should be. (even if its stuff that's not necessarily that great)
Vehicle Armor and Damage Resistance The Decimator counts as a Dumfire Rocket Launcher. The formula is: Raw Damage x (1 - (Armor Resistance / 100)) x (1 - (Damage Resistance / 100)) = Modified Damage
To preface, I agree with most of your points, but only partially. NS needs to stay, but it is too potent overall, and some faction flavor would be a good thing. To be fair, they do have generally low damage, and it seems as though they are intended to be boring, but effective weapons to use for all factions. I don't see anything wrong with having NS weapons in the game, but I don't think they should be the absolute best at any one thing. If anything, I'd like to see their mish-mash of faction traits reduced very slightly, or given something unique that other factions simply don't have. (Although, it can be argued that this is the case now - I like the yellow tracers and NS weapon sounds, no one can be sure who us using the gun just from the sound / direction / minimap, at least when there are suppressors involved, for that last one. .) To go another route, I'd love to see a few ES attachment options to give them a bit of faction flavor. Perhaps reduce their base stats very slightly - The NS-15m for example - Drop the magazine size to 50, drop the ADS speed to .5, increase reload speed by .75 seconds, and allow faction-specific attachments. The VS could convert the ammo to plasma / batteries, gaining no-drop and quickening the reload slightly. The TR gets a +15 to magazine size and +75 RPM, in exchange for a small amount of horizontal recoil (to match their other weapons, nothing significant.), and the NC go up a damage tier, gain +20m/s round velocity, and slowing the fire rate by ~75m/s When's the last time? 9-6-2015, the new ES Secondaries! Prior to that? ES Pistols! Prior to that? About a ~year-ish ago, ES Sniper rifles. There's new ES LMG's in the works too, the guns are "done", they just need to "hook them up" - from the Reddit Q&A. (Here's a summary link to the QA session, if you're at all interested. https://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/3m4vlp/list_of_all_dev_responses_in_qa/ - Also, here's some interesting reading from a former Dev, it can be difficult to put in new stuff, and I'm guessing the PS2 team is still frustrated about old blockages, not to mention hesitant to put in any new potentially OP ES toys - https://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside...is_community_knows_what/cts1xsz?context=10000 - Given the recent burst of communication / plans layed out on Reddit, I'm guessing that most of the old bottlenecks have been dealt with... Hopefully we'll see more creative stuff Soon™ ) Yeah, these are well thought out, but both the Airhammer and the Banshee have been through multiple nerfs, the L-PPA used to be the absolute worst ES AI nosegun, and generally a terrible choice all around. It's now considered one of the better options due to just how much the Banshee / AH have been nerfed - most of the nerfed stats were what made them good Empire Specific toys. Balancing factions for horde of whining, disgruntled gamers is obnoxious, and they were forced to do so Well, to be fair - the Vulcan is an extremely rapid-fire gun with drop, the Aphelion fires less rapidly, has a smaller magazine size, and has the charged-shot as a mechanic. If I'm remembering correctly, BBurnes (the designer) originally wanted to have the Aphelion be a horizontal cutting beam thing, with every projectile being similar to the current charge-shot mechanic. Technical issues were encountered, and due to time constraints / development budget, a large, horizontal hitbox for a projectile wasn't workable. (The current charge-shot mechanic has a larger, but still spherical hitbox, which is why the projectile seems to clip through things at it's edges. It's just big enough to hit most of the time, but wouldn't be viable for the original design of firing nothing but those.) The Vulcan has gone through a cycle of buff / nerf for years - the design of a rapid-fire, close quarters AV gun is fundamentally difficult to balance. Lots of projectiles = good vs AI if it does any sort of real damage. It either rocks, or blows tremendously - they opted to give everyone something similar. Now that everyone has something similar, no one has anything to complain about for the CQB Vehicle secondaries. (Except for perhaps the NC, who got a slower projectile, semi-auto, fewer-projectile version that's worse vs Infantry for the same reason that the Vulcan / Aphelion are effective.) Great idea! We need ES pitchforks. The VS can have plasma pitchforks to be used as extendable bayonets, the TR can have a triple-pitchfork with really teeny barbs instead of spearheads, and the NC can weld the biggest train they can find to a MAX's face and used them to headbutt things! ... Oh, you said to wait, never mind. Yeah, the fact that NS pistols are so popular is sort of irritating. Here's a fun fact for you, the VS's top pistol... is a Commissioner, at least other factions have good options. This is actually the only example of this in the game, however - nowhere else does a faction have a NS option as their absolute top performer over anything ES. I want some of the original Beamer concepts back, did you know that the Beamer was originally supposed to have infinite ammo, and fire a potent, sustained beam on a heat mechanic? (Some original art, back from Planetside 2's original FAQ) ...Not to mention other pistols. I always envisioned the NC getting something like a Blackhand + Railjack. A high caliber, huge-velocity projectile, but with a low number of shots / long reload. For the TR, well... Google Metal Storm. I want them to have tech like this in their small arms in general, although the fire rate would probably have to be less then something like this, http://www.americanantigravity.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Arthur-Schatz-Metal-Storm-1.jpg - 16,666 rounds a second sounds fun though. See my above, I agree that they are too good in general (at least the pistols can't have suppressors) I like the idea of nerfing their extra booster stats, then requiring adding on attachments for extra faction-flavored tech via certs. You still have the base gun as a fair, usable option, but getting any performance beyond that requires investment. In general, I believe the intent of the current starter weapons (In general, LMGs are the best example) are intended to give the player an idea of what to expect with other ES weapons. The Orion is a fair indicator - low magazine size, but low reload and semi-good controlability. The CARV is ok, although it's a bit on the accurate side versus other small arms. The Gauss SAW... should turn people away from the NC, but it apparently doesn't - everything else in their faction performs better, for the most part. Well, not really - The shots drop more rapidly, travel more slowly, and reload much slower... not to mention the fewer total rockets per full resupply. This is an example of a weapon with direct trade-offs - it sacrifices quite a bit to get the extra alpha damage. Still, I'd like to see a heavy hitting option in each faction beyond the defaults. The TR could fire clusters of rockets in a large, extremely rapid salvo. (Really, just give the Striker an Alt Fire mode - fire all six rockets at once, but with no lock-on potential, and they auto detonate after reaching a certain range - time to reload is doubled to give the barrel time to cool. Give the Lancer a 6-charge option firing mode, forcing a reload prior to an additional +6 seconds charge time. The NC... well - Rail guns can be scary. Yes, those are steel plates. Development budget is a thing that exists, and the PS2 team doesn't have enough of it. Unfortunately, H1Z1 is already turning more of a profit pre release, and according to Malorn (The former Dev) - On release, H1Z1 will probably earn more in a month then PS2 does in a year. Given that PS2 runs in the same engine, I just hope some of the new mechanics will trickle down into PS2, hopefully sans zombie virus. (We may be getting new water effects: Sauce - https://twitter.com/Murph_K/status/649637622323789824 ) And yes, I think / read about Planetside 2 way too much these days.
For those going on about too much NS stuff I got a question. What were the empire specific aircraft in Planetside 1?
VS + Common pool empire Halberd best AV secondary Fury/Kobalt best AI secondary And so on And yes the Empire specific aircraft in PS1 = VS Max units Can we get the option in VR training for the VS to have the VS targets renamed to VS weapon development team member XYZ... I mean then VS weapons might get some use.
It's hard to blame the devs for favoring NS content. Any time ES stuff is released, people ***** endlessly (justifiedly or not) because either they don't like what they got or they think someone else got something OP. When NS stuff is released, a few people complain about not having more ES stuff, but it's pretty halfhearted in comparison.
This is the biggest issue. If NS was treated as a fourth faction with its own traits instead of borrowed ones from all three empires, then it wouldn't be too bad.
