Why 0.75ADS is so bad for the game

Frankly that makes no sense because what other characteristic distinguishes VS HAs from other HAs that would be picked on next? 0.75 is the only one you can put your finger on that is significantly different, because nobody thinks the performance of VS HAs can be explained by the lancer or the lasher. And if it doesn't matter then why so many people flock to prorion family, given it's reportedly not so stellar damage profile and accuracy?
HAs should never be allowed to be 0.75 so good riddance either way. 50% advantage over baseline is too big for a staple class, btw why are there no let's say 0.6ads weapons? 0.6 vs 0.5 wouldn't look as bad as 0.75 vs 0.5 does, it's a ******* light machine gun we are talking about here.

No one ever explains why.

Numerical simplicity probably. Clean-cut division of decimals.

If a Light Machine Gun is wielded by Heavy Assault, does that turn one of the two into Medium Assault?

A .75ads LMG is basically an SMG with 143 damage model up to about 40+ meters. That is not right IMO. You add lag and server update speeds, you get frustrating game play against the VS. Give two .75 ads LMG weapons to both TR & NC. Or remove the .75ads on Orion/BG.

Here is my issue with the whole 0.75 ADS thing -- people say it is such a HUGE advantage. Therefore, losing speed on that scale would be an equal HUGE disadvantage. Yet many people say the HA is a broken unfair class -- because shield. But the shield has a drawback which is, yup you guessed it, a drop in speed on par with the difference between 0.5 ads and 0.75 ads.

However, and these are generally the same people who claim that the 0.75 ads on vanu lmgs is unfair, when you bring that up the shield drawback to those people they say the drawback is nothing. So if the HA shield drawback of huge speed drop is "nothing," "not a real drawback" or "a minor at best drawback", then it would stand to reason that 0.75 ADS buff would be "nothing," "not a real advantage" or "a minor at best advantage."

The logical fallacy of some of the claims are staggering.


Note, I am not arguing that HAs are fine or broken. I am not arguing that 0.75 ADS is fine or broken. Just pointing out this huge hole in the argument that I always see.

Lanneman,you are currently the only one that STILL complaining about .75 ads in LMGs,don't you realize that everybody already stopped crying about it.

Oh look,radar posted some interesting stuff in the "in-development" how about going there and check whats the interesting content he listed,trust me you will get excited instead of complaining about a 4 months topic that radar already said they will not consider any time soon and get nothing but sarcasm responses?

Otherwise,How about you go on a café with your friends and smoke a hookah?

I do think it's funny, that as much as the vanu cry ".75 ads doesn't matter, we just have more skill" etc. when it "accidentally" got patched out a while back there was a huge outcry and emergency hot fix within minutes. Yet it took like a week to fix lockdown for TR.

For something that "doesn't matter" everyone screamed like banshees about it.

Whether or not HA and/or 0.75x ADS are OP, There's really no hole in the argument. With NMG/adrenaline shield, you can strafe at 0.75 speed, activate the shield to soak up a few bullets, then go right back to strafing at 0.75 speed. You get the "huge" advantage of 0.75x ADS, alongside the much bigger advantage of the overshield, and they don't interfere with each other in the slightest.

In the case of resist shield, the loss of mobility does matter when dealing with other HAs, and 100% cancelling that drawback does matter. People only say it's "nothing" in the context of trying to fight HAs as some other class.

I'd second that as an alternative to nerfing the Orion's other non ADS mobility-related stats, since the Orion is too easily accessible and a weapon like this limits the point of weapon diversity in the game, aside from using other LMGs to earn the Betelgeuse.

People just associate the ADS speed as the main fault of this issue when in reality it has a minor factor in combat. Players just tend to look for something they don't have and complain about, probably similar to how the Aphelion is spawned from the Vulcan. Vanu didn't realize that they should have supported the patch because they had already fed on the tears of us scum and jumped on the bandwagon. The other said stats in the proposed LMG changes would actually make the Orion even more reliable since it already has potent accuracy and generous handling.

Is it VANU crying about .75 ads doesn't matter or YOU crying about .75 ads OP??

We aren't objecting on removing the 75% multi becouse we believe we are stupid noobs without it,we object becouse:

1.we are trying to put an end to the nerf wars that had been for more than 15 months which was started by TR becouse if we didn't object,one day you fill find threads like "Orion too OP becouse its so accurate" "nerf no bullit drop" "why VS get heat mechanic weapons while other factions don't?" and who knows,you might even be involved in one of those

2.we believe that the compensations for removing such trait aren't sufficient

3.we believe that the problem isn't in .75 ads as a broken trait like every user claim(this is justified by oracle stats) but the issue is in making an LMG which can only be compared to the best TR and NC LMG as default

As for why i talked when the LMG changes accidentky hit life becouse i thought it was intended becouse I NEVER experienced such bug before

Aside from whiners,why should we remove a mobility feature fron an LMG especially that its related to faction's uniqueness??becouse people just don't have it??lol this isn't even an arguement that is worth to reply on.again,the issue isn't in a CQC beast like orion but the issue is in making such LMG as default,make the less popular LMGs easier to purchase and make the orion with 1000 certs instead of ursa and you will notice a HUGE decrease in orion users

Orion isn't accurate unless you put a grip on it.be minded that its horizontal tolerance is more than the MSW's by a huge scale(orion is .9.MSW is .55) while its ADS accuracy is .4 unlike the MSW which is .35.also the MSW reloads faster and has access to the CQC attachments unlike orion

Mobility is a VS trait

Eh, no.

Orion/Betelgeuse have massively better hipfire as well as better recoil settle time and reloads, putting these weapons closer to Carbines than LMG's.
Orion for instance has a much better headshot ratio than the T9Carv, which comes closest to the Orion's stats. 0,75ADS does not affect headshot accuracy.

The Orion is better every time than the T9Carv... But not much better, except in a few stats. These stats don't have anything to do with survivability offered by 0,75 ADS, such as a higher headshot ratio. This means it has to be an accuracy statistic, so we can assume that the Orion's better hipfire helps them in CQC to land headshots and kill people faster. Add the bonus of 0,75ADS that helps them dodge a shot more meaning they have less recoil from getting hit and you've already got the statistics we see on the Orion.

The Orion is to all intents a MSW-R with no bullet drop, SPA or ALS, just with 0.75 ADS instead.

Remove 0.75 ADS and then its a subpar MSW, that fails to get the same KPU/KPH as either the Anchor or MSW (with 0.75 ADS).

The real problem is that the VS got the CQC LMG as a starter weapon unlike the other empires, but then the NC got a bolt action sniper rifle as a starter, and TR got a burst fire pistol.

So the solution

Switch the VS starter LMG to something like the LSW and put a 500 or so cert price on the Orion
Switch the NC starter sniper rifle to the semi auto and put a 500 or so cert price on the Bolt Driver
Switch the TR starter pistol to the inquisitor and put a 500 or so cert price on the Repeater

Then if the 0.75 ADS is still a problem remove it but then the SPA and ALS will need to be added to the Orion as compensation and something similar to the SVA/Betelgeuse.

NS15 can stay as it is with 0.75 ADS

Guys, this isn't a VS thread.

...which makes it worse.

Wait wait wait

Are you saying that hipfiring with 75% ads multi is a massive advantage??

It's not massive, and the hipfire is the biggest advantage it seems rather than 0,75 ADS. It's an advantage ofcourse, but everything points to it not being a big advantage. Betelguese has HEAT mechanic as an extra, and that seems to give it the edge it needs to suddenly get out on top.

The better recoil settle time comes with a higher FSRM on the Orion and the reload speed is overcompensated by the magazine size (half the mag size but more than half the reload time).
The headshot ratio advantage vanishes once you look at BR 75+ or BR100 and the fact that you have more of those using the Orion than the CARV explains why the Orion is in front overall.

Still this topic?

I'm impressed by the fact many can't see it: the problem is not with the ADS, the problem is with lack of momentum / acceleration to strafe. 0.75 makes weapons OP as long as players can move ADADADADA like pyscotic squirrels full of prozac.

The Orion itself is pretty balanced. Maybe it shouldn't be the stock LMG, but it's ok.

The problem is players can use this very powerful and precise weapon while 1) they have the shield on 2) they move ADADADA 3) they maintain an insane accuracy even at relevant range. 4) The Betelgeuse adds on top the heat mechanism which is great feature and makes the hate grow even more as the other directive LMGs are not so good.
All these things add up and result is VS HA performing better than any other class in the game.

I'll say it once again: we need devs to add acceleration to strafe and direction changes. Prevent players from moving ADADADA like idiots and 1) our gun fights will look less ridicolous 2) ALL 0.75 weapons will be immediately balanced.

So the entire difference in stats, which isn't too big to begin with, can be explained by the simple fact that more high level players use it? This means that 0,75 ADS means even less.