Finally having a long range weapon ~

That's what Oracle shows, but Oracle is an inaccurate means of figuring out what's op or not.

The devs have have a better means of figuring out what's OP or not, and how to fix it.

All we can do is bring the subject up, and give recommendations.

The meaning behind that jab was that the Halberd is not ES. It's not like the VS or NC had a CQC AV secondary before the last update, either, let alone an ES one. Now everything should be reciprocal.

So it is just coincidence then that the stats usually show something overperforming before it gets nerfed? (and conversely underperforming before it gets buffed)

My recomendations based on the only things we have (the stats) are that MBT balance is relatively good overall, however equally the Van is only performing on-par/sub-par so would be the least likely to need nerfing (rebuilding from the ground up is another thing, if they want to change the Shield and buff the stock chassis).

I would imagine DBG agrees.

Um no its doesnt, from the 2 days of stats it shows that the GK has 100% more kills on the Harasser than NC/VS Halberd, and Double on the MBT versions.

Probably what's going to have to happen with the Gatekeeper is tone down its projectile velocity a bit, and bring its DPS more in line with a Halberd or Enforcer (right now it's closer to the Vulcan).

As far as the shield goes, I think the reason nerfing it by 33% didn't change much is that its strongest asset was not necessarily its damage mitigation. It was the psychological effect of uninformed players thinking it was invincible, and ceasing fire.

It prevents far more damage by convincing people to stop shooting at you than it ever did directly.

Nobody is talking about the Harasser?

Kill volumes are irrelevant as statistic in terms of balance because if you ONLY have one secondary then the whole faction will use it and not to mention its NEW. ( ps, its not double on MBT )

You measure the stats on an average, which on MBT v MBT the Aphelion is coming out on top, but by a margin.

But heres a thing about stats, the VS halb is double the performance of the TR, so should be Nerf the VS Halb?? lol

Without taking a look I bet my Striker AE that the VS Halberd outperforms the TR Halberd in KPU and is top of the list regarding KPH and VKPH.

But thats not because the VS are better or their Halberd sneakily deals more damage.
The platform it is mounted on simply makes it both easer to engage and disengage targets. Being able to shoot enemies from positions where they can't fire back helps too.
The Vanguard will propably have the biggest KPU because its shield gives it the most survivability and it will be between VS and TR in terms of KPH, because surviving longer = less time wasted driving to the battles => higher KPH.
The Prowler doesn't have any advantage for its secondary gun, quite the contrary - its ability is to lock down far away so the secondary is hard to use because of great distances, but still gets easily hit because its immobile.

The new Gatekeeper might be very good even for locked down Prowlers, so lets see how that one plays out. As of now (I've used it two times) it feels slightly too powerful for its ease of use.
It would be awesome if we could reduce velocity by 100m/s and reduce the ROF by 10%, but invert those changes for anchor.
So a secondary gunner would finally get something out of it.

Please, stop abusing stats, just stop.

Yes, WetPatch is wrong to compare the Halberd & gen 1 ESAV with the gen 2 ESAV, but that is because the gen 2 data is from just after release and the first double XP weekend in months, so there have been way more players and vehicles than usual, while the older weapons are averaged for the whole previous 30 days.

Please stop asserting that one weapon is better than another because of its "performance" say what stat you think is important and why.

Please stop claiming that there is MBT v MBT data, there isn't, the closest thing on the oracle stats is the vehicle deaths page, and we'll have to wait a month for the new weapons to show up there properly. You've already shown that your idea of "measure the stats on an average" is to claim that because a single stat (VKPU) is higher on the MBT Aphelion, despite every other stat favouring the GK, despite the average GK user being a lower BR, despite the Prowler main gun taking a higher proportion of vehicle kills with its higher DPS, and despite the two weapons being for vastly different playstyles, somehow this is "on average the GK is worse".

You could actually try using the stats and game knowledge to work out why VS Halberd has "better performance" than the TR one, perhaps you could actually look at more stats like the fact that the average VS gunner is far more experienced (VS = BR ~70 : TR = BR ~60), that the VS use it about half as much as TR (in both number of users and hours used) suggesting it is only used in optimal situations rather than general ones, and that the VS MBT primary weapons have far lower damage output, so their secondaries will be more likely to get the kill over the primary weapon. Oh and yes, different weapons have different power on different platforms (hence the necessity of unevenly nerfing Harasser versions), so it is in fact entirely possible that the same weapon might need to be balanced differently on different platforms, so your sarcasm is unwarranted.

prowler was already the ultimate king of long range, nothing in the game comes close to AP anchor prowler,
with good aim you could shred through a 2/2 enemy tank before they can even scratch your paintwork,
throw in a weapon thats nearly as good as saron (and much better than enforcer) and you are AV gods!

note, i'm not complaining i'll be picking it up on my 9000 cert prowler tonight XD

I think it very warranted. Stats as you correctly point out tell some of the story not the whole story and that was my point about the Hals as they were commenting about stats.

But your very protective about your new secondary, maybe deep down you know its too strong in its current format and try and deflect pressure on the TR away from the VS, this is whats wrong with forumside. If players stopped trying to nerf other factions items when they dont need it, then we would have a more balanced game than we currently have now.

I support buffs on the Zoe and Proton and PPA, i can be honest about it as its only fair to the game, but trying to find any formulation in an effort to nerf something is just poor forn dear chap.

The gatekeeper is obviously a disguised version of the old PPA and TR are using it EXACTLY as we were using the pre-nerfed PPAthat everybody cried to nerf it

Point and click weapons are something vicious in the arena,hence I see we totally remove the CoF bloom from the saron and and make it with 8 rounds,otherwise,add CoF bloom to the gatekeeper

The gatekeeper is obviously a disguised version of the old PPA and TR are using it EXACTLY as we were using the pre-nerfed PPAthat everybody cried to nerf it

Point and click weapons are something vicious in the arena,hence I see we totally remove the CoF bloom from the saron and and make it with 8 rounds,otherwise,add CoF bloom to the gatekeeper

P.S. The garekeeper has no drop......

The gatekeeper is obviously a disguised version of the old PPA and TR are using it EXACTLY as we were using the pre-nerfed PPAthat everybody cried to nerf it

Point and click weapons are something vicious in the arena,hence I see we totally remove the CoF bloom from the saron and and make it with 8 rounds,otherwise,add CoF bloom to the gatekeeper

I'm not protective of the new secondary, mostly I have discussed it in the context of the absurdity of a MBT with what is apparently a CQC secondary weapon still losing in CQC against a tank with a "dedicated long range" weapon. The Aphelion is obviously going to be rebalanced, because as I have previously pointed out, it has the same stats on the MBT and the Harasser, so it seems obvious DBG were unsure how to balance a weapon with two non-conventional mechanics (spin up & charge up) on a non-conventional vehicle. We can expect it to be rebalanced once they have the data. Personally I prefer the Saron HRB and Halberd MBT playstyle, because if you are in the open against an enemy MBT in a "fair" 1v1 fight at short range (as the Aphelion playstyle dictates) you have already lost. Though yes, it is incredibly powerful all around weapon if you have a gunner who is good at hitting aircraft, MAXes and infantry with the charge shots,

Once again, you are a liar for accusing me of using in game performance stats to call for nerfs. What I have done is to point out the absurdity of balancing a MBT around its ability to evade damage, but having low damage output, but then giving its supposed equivalent a secondary weapon that effectively ignores that balancing factor while still having higher DPS than the VS equivalent at that range. It's the analogous to making it so the GK ignored the Vanguard's shield and bonus damage resistance. I have pretty much only referred to in game stats in response to others.

He brings up a good point about the halberd that you should address:

Different firing platforms offer different advantages and disadvantages to weapon stats. He is not "abusing" stats by pointing this out. He is saying that we need to consider ALL of the angles when looking at the problem.

I did address it

While we do not have all the stats available to us that the devs do, it is misleading to claim that it is impossible to infer why weapons perform differently based on characteristics like average BR, numbers of users, and weapon "price". I may not be able to say for certain why the VS Halberd performs better than the TR, but I can also do better than saying I have no idea.

And he was abusing stats, he was claiming one weapon was better than another because it performed better on one stat (but worse on every other), and then spuriously claimed that this one stat meant something that it didn't (VKPU has only the vaguest correlation to MBT against MBT performance)

I dont recall accusing you, its an observation about you.

So, if the GK with the prowler is so strong and powerful etc etc, why are the stats not backing you up on this, because they are not showing the massive void at all?

"Observation"? Stating that someone holds a belief that is regarded universally negatively, without it being proven, sounds a lot like an accusation.

So, for example I am "accusing" rather than "observing" you are a liar, because you are again insisting that I am claiming that the GK is far too powerful, when what I actually am saying is that its design unbalances one of the MBT vs MBT fights, which I never claimed would be represented in the stats currently available to us. My use of those stats was to call you out for dishonesty for claiming the Aphelion was overperforming because of one statistic, while neglecting every other.

I did say the Aphelion was over performing and you agreed this in your last post and said it will be adjusted by DB, so you argued over my stats i provided, but agree in my assessment of the Aphelion but you wanted to prove some other stats to me, to call me out when you already thought it was OP.

Ok then, im glad that's all sorted ??

Please don't be offended if i don't reply