It's clear people are fed up with 0.75ADS, why aren't you removing it from the game DBG?

Hmm alright, I'll concede.

The Orion does seem to overperform in general, by about 25%, but that seems to absolutely vanish in Q4.
I must admit that I actually expected it to look a lot more like the comparison between the directive guns... and there is no denying that at least the Betelgeuse is overwhelming its counterparts. Maybe it replaced the orion in my perception...
At 31.4/34.8 KPU to 54.4
and 48/52.4 KPH to 68.7.
At this very moment.
That is a horrific 56.32% better KPU and 31.1% better KPU than the second best directive LMG.

For a comparison, the horrible TR doomsday weapon, the banshee, the last data before a 78% nerf-hammer hit its splash:
10.7/12.3 KPU to 14.5 - 17.9% overperforming.
37.7/44.14 KPH to 52.2 - 18.4% overperforming.
ouch.

I guess the Betlegeuse must be warping peoples' perception of the Orion.
And I think I'll play VS a couple days and see for myself for more than a couple hours...... maybe I'll not get weapon locked all the time because of game-long habits...

you are comparing apples with oranges

of course the betelgeuse is overperforming in comparison to the godsaw, the godsaw is a ranged LMG

and i have no idea what the butcher is supposed to excel at, it's garbage and needs to be buffed i guess...

SOE/DBG should've just given everyone the CQC LMGs in the directives, but you really can't compare the KPH or KPU of the directive weapons when they are used to fill completely different roles, thats like comparing the KPU of the Lasher, Jackhammer and Chaingun

which NC and TR guns have 750 rpm with no spread and easy to handle?

You obviously haven't played this game long enough to be making such a bold face lie like that.

the MSW-R has horrible spread in med to long range, and has a harder kick than the orion too, it's much harder to control, but I'm against 700+ rpm rifles for the Heavy class to begin with.

Also, stop trying to drag the other factions down because you want protect you easy mode, it's getting pretty lame now. All of you.

I play all three factions and if I'm going Heavy my 1v1 success with my VS Character is incomparable to the success with my other characters. It's like cutting through butter that's been left on the patio on a warm summer day.

The problem is you aren't really doing a fair comparison. Most Q4 VS who play a lot of HA are going to be using the Betel, in fact that same site shows it

http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=q4playtime&weapon1=7236&weapon2=1894&weapon3=7254

Far fewer are using the Orion.

In fact more VS HAs are using the Betel than NC using the Anchor or TR using the MSW-R, which most consider the best to use of their respective faction (MSW-R and Anchor are within spitting distance of each other Q4 playtime wise).

Those 3 should probably be within spitting distance of each other in the other Q4 stats but they are not.

While the Anchor enjoys a small but definitely noticeable performance improvement over the MSW-R the Betel outright blows this both out of the water. Something isn't right. Especially when the biggest difference between MSW and Betel is soft point vs. 0.75.

Oh and just for fun
Q4 Playtime of NS-15:
http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=q4playtime&weapon1=301001&weapon2=301002&weapon3=301003
Q4 KPU of NS-15:
http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=q4kpu&weapon1=301001&weapon2=301002&weapon3=301003

You know for those who like to brag about VS skill being the main factor.

Who balanced this game and said "this isn't going to be an issue"?

Nah, i think the skill can be assumed as equally distributed across all factions,

Just the assumption that the Betelgeuse is overperforming because of it's 0.75 ADS is a bit rushed, i think if that would be the case, the Anchor and MSW-R would still be performing worse than the Orion

maybe it has to do with the other benefits the Betelgeuse is offering, never having to reload surely will give you better survivability and KPH, i don't know the other Benefits

also, the Betelgeuse overperformed in comparison right from the get go, without a drop in Performance for the Orion or SVA-88 when the Betelgeuse was released (04th August 2014), which both always performed worse than the Anchor

http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=kpu&weapon1=1894&weapon2=7236&weapon3=80

drag the timeline to when the Betelgeuse appeared, after the August 4th 2014, and you see what i mean

Betelgeuse overperforming that much though is a surprise for me^^

It's balanced on SMGs, more or less acceptable on carbines and ARs, but too good on LMGs, since it boosts the survivability of the most survivable class and negates the main downside of their class ability. Basically prenerf-ZOE-light. I guess it made sense at first, but I'm surprised it hasn't been fixed eventually.

That last part about the NS-15 wasn't really aimed at you, but it's an arguement that does like to get thrown around for whatever reason.

My theory as to why the Orion performs worse than the Anchor specifically has always been cost factor.

You create a new VS character you have the orion, you don't get the anchor unless you decide to pay for it one way or another. So my assumption has always been you have better NC players using the Anchor while you have have a wider range of skill players using the Orion.

Admittedly the VS also have the issue of having some weaker version guns in their arsenal so you always had the bulk using the Orion and few others using the SVA-88, which was nerfed.

The betel does have other benefits and the newest version is definitely the best yet, I can't even remember if the original Betel had the heat mechanic at all, the original heat mechanic though was more limiting than the current version as you couldn't just switch to pistol to wait for heat to go down etc.

BG outdoes the hell out of the Anchor in KPU...

im pretty sure if the ingame data of the betel shown INFINITE AMMOOOOOOO instead of the currently wrong 50/something bullet profile a lot of unaware ppl would gladly grind for that instead of using other LMGs.

The BG's stats are not caused by ADS, not even close. They are a result of heat ammo and nothing else.

Everything is relative.
0,50=100% --> 0,75=150% --> 50% difference relative to 0,50
0,75=100% --> 0,5=66,67% --> 33,33% difference relative to 0,75
1,00=100% --> 0,5=50% & 0,75=75% --> difference of 50% and 25% respectively
All numbers are true.

I used wording to try and implicate the 0,75 as being the 100% feature the first time around as well as that the 1,00 hipfire was the 100% feature the second time around, and I used fractions rather than percentages so the difference would be clear and I would be able to avoid the whole percentages stuff. Failed apparently.
Also, I specificaly used these fractions to show that the 50% isn't set in stone and the advantage you gain is also relative to the observer.

LMG's are the LAST weapon you would ever consider "Mobile/Agile"

So yes, it's not the 0,75 ADS modifier that makes them OP, it's the combined stats of range, fire rate, damage per shot, damage falloff and accuracy with all that it entails that make it OP. The movement itself is an advantage, but it's not the thing that makes the weapon OP. It's like comparing a strafing MAX to someone crouchwalking. The MAX is going a lot faster, but it's not as if it gives you much more advantage.

Moving slow and moving very slow doesn't offer that much advantage. Never has and never will. The only advantage you might have is in abusing ADAD spam, which is a direct result of abusing the latency system and making your character warp on someone's screen making you tough to hit. But that is a problem in itself that can be fixed by giving infantry a tiny movement deceleration and preventing instant direction changes, and would nullify the biggest advantage that 0,75 ADS might give.

Again, when one player moves in slow-motion (he's strafing! It's not as if we can even sprint at high speeds!) you don't get that much of an advantage in this game if you can go 50% faster than slow-motion. Sure it gives some advantage, but nothing that should, in any capacity, be more than a tie breaker. It's the 1 gram that makes 10 tons of weight tip one way or another.

I'm not going to argue that the HEAT mechanic isn't a factor at all, but if it was the only factor and offers that much of an improvement over it's closest competitors wouldn't the other VS HEAT guns be doing much better in their respective categories as well rather than just holding their own?

Not exactly. You have to realize that the platform those weapons are based off of aren't the greatest. As much as the Darkstar has heat ammo the Terminus is just a beast. The Eclipse is just okay but it isn't a VX67 or Pulsar C. The BG on the other hand is just an Orion which is amazing. This isn't to say the other weapons are bad they are just not as good.

Hip fire has limited range and double the bloom on most weapons. SMGs got crap range regardless, and on every other accurate hip fire weapon the furthest you can feasibly go is ~15m.

50% faster is more relevant, because the starting point is 0.5x of the standard ADS speed.

75% ADS is much bigger boon than hip fire accuracy, because the difference in precision (in hip fire vs ads) is huge, while the difference in speed (in 75% ADS vs 100% of hip fire) is not.

75% ADS is a boon at most ranges, accurate hip fire only at very close range.

Crab walkers are not that hard to shoot, just remember basic rules. Find a rock, tree, box, friendly vehicle or a MAX and become best friends! Poke your brave little head out and then pew pew pew and you and your best friend rock, tree, box friendly vehicle or a MAX high five You killed a crab walker!

No it's clear that there are numerous comments that state opinions of 0.75x ADS being a problem.

You are just generalising this and making it sound absolute.

Good Job. You could be a politician.

I agree with the post and even this sentence, but it seems you imply that 0,75 ADS is an incredible super-B feature. Sure it gives an advantage, but it will not make or break a weapon. The strafing spreed even with hipfire is easy enough to track, let alone someone going at 75% that speed or even less when activating their shield.

0,75 ADS is an advantage, but it is not and has never been the thing that made the weapon OP. It's the combined stats of accuracy, DPS and ease-of-use.
I don't care about removing 0,75 ADS from LMG's, it's not a huge advantage and it doesn't make sense on LMG's. But what I'm against is the way people blow it up to be the feature that blows the weapon to astronomical proportions while there's a ton of other stats that actually make the weapon OP.