Vanu and balancing

Dont forget the AV+enforcer vanguard with the extra shield.

the moment you know you have to burst your weapons in non CQC fights NC weapons are the most acurate because of the non existent first shot multiplier which makes those weapons nealy pin point acurate.

Phoenix: no need to aim in the first place and you dont have to expose yourself to the enemy. you can shoot while hiding behind cover.
Raven: unlike vortex, you dont have to aim in the fist place, you can spam them without extreme spread of cof and most important: one raven max can DESTROY enemy vehicles without a problem while a vortex max (or a lancer ha) can only force them to fall back so you have to team up with other vortex / lancer users

nearly worthless at range as long as the enemy has the eyes to see those fluffy balls are flying in his direction.

LOOOOL, yeah, as long as you are willing to stop shooting after the first 2 extreme slow and bright glowing balls left the gun and then start shooting again. if you want to go full auto you will have a big projectile spread. And its the only weapon in the game that will garantee you a weapon lock.

while playing my nc or tr char i like running into lasher has because its easy to kill them because the lasher is not meant to be used in 1o1 while the jackhammer is a OHK monster and the chaingun is (especially with the faster spinof thing) also a cqc beast.

As long as Vanu have no bullet drop they will be OP, wake up and smell the truth already!

Another brilliant thread from Grandpa,
guess the "Nerf Infiltrators" thread wasn't going along then?

It seems to be always better than the "What if...... ( Food for brain, you know )" daily threads.

The only thing i smell, is something trollish in your post.
In most cases the non existing drop on a weapon is useless, like on lmg or shotguns. Sure go ahead and "snipe" with those. You will surely have plenty of success and a 40 K/D in no time.

Other weapons where it would make sense, are either weak or have a low velocity or another tweak which is making the use kinda meh. For example the battle rifle Idolon. Sure no drop but it's a battle rifle ffs. It's shots are so weak you could use any other weapon and be more productive. Or Phaseshift, a "sniper" rifle with no drop. But not only with one of the lowest velocities, no in addition you have the charge delay which makes charged and non charged shots more difficult to land on long range. That is, if the taregt isn't stuck, afk, disconnected or what have you.

Lasher - again crappy velocity, good luck killing something with that on range. The main dmg comes from direct hits not indirect.
(As well as PPA.)

Lancer and Vortex. The problem with those is the range. You could just let the beam vanish after a set amount of range traveled.
A Phoenix also explodes after a set amount of time traveled.
And besides, Phoenix in that regard has also no drop as well as (overperforming) Ravens.

Let me take a guess, you are also one of those people who will still cry if they get killed by VS lmgs, after thar ADS multyplier went down to 0.5 . You would blame everything the enemy got for your mad "skillz".
I could give more examples and could even disucss this matter in detail, but you aren't the first in this forum i encounter with such short view. So forgive me when i say, i just don't have the patience any longer for such bullshrimp.

I think I posted in the wrong vanu hate thread...

If the MSW-R was the default TR LMG, and the Butcher built off of it, that would be fine. The problem is that the default TR LMG is a turd and the Butcher is a polished turd.

Pounders are also meh at best compared to other factions' MAX AV options.

not teamwork, zergballing, they don't need any communication atall, just move along the lattice rolling over everything purely because they outnumber the defenders 3 to 1.

Looking at the Oracle of death last 30 days, they are all close, nothing earth shattering.
KPH HS
Merc 13.51 .213
Trac 13.84 .188
Sol 13.48 .196

The TR carbines has worst recoil than the VS, but then most VS play HA anyway for one simple reason but once AGAIN i state, its was IMO of what i would like, not saying its Factually just that i love the Sol.

All I have to say is this....

yes i go to special school where I learn not to cry about VS and instead L2P

Its true the VS are OP the following weapons definitely need buffing nerfing down to their counterparts

PPA, needs to be nerfed to be comparative to the Canister or Marauder
Mags main gun, same deal here when its compared to wither the Vanguard or Prowler (at least for AV)
ZoE, most definitely OP needs to have the same usage level as the Aegis shield on the NC max, not being in constant use that it is always in
Phaseshift, clearly the no bullet drop and the high damage make this one the winner....

Oh i never say it's fair but it's how it work in forumside, no one give a damn if my killstreak with cyclone end when i don't find ammo pack...
Do you see any good players nc and tr from cobalt complaining about vs being op here? i don't see them and even in game, i never see a good br 100 tell me "yeah you win because orion", i know a lot of players perfectly fine with anchor or msw-r or bull or gauss saw... The truth is there is a lot of great weapon and way to play in other faction too. Go try to play with slug pandora with vs for example and after that go play nc with slug piston and see the difference. I love shootgun slug and honestly i'm kind envy nc for it even if i'm not cry about it in the forum.
People won't change their mind because it's easier to blame someone else than learn how to play.

Your chain of thought and logic does that for you.

There is nothing wrong with the VS its just that the TR are not worth playing as a faction as the TR are basically the VS with more bullets and less accurate guns.

well, the TR faction specific launcher seems to be very bad, but it's pretty much their own fault, really, just before it got "nerfed" many TR cried that the Striker was not better than any other non-faction specific launcher (allthough it had higher damage in the first few seconds, before the loooong reload)

when they revamped the striker they simply made it's projectiles to slow, the rockets do to little damage, and the TR saw that it takes away a lot of damage if you actually have to AIM the thing, especially against air, which is also a part of the lancer and the phoenix

and yes, you can't hit a tank at very long range with the lancer without leading, to hit aircraft you have to lead quite a bit as well, it's simply way more unreliable against air than the old striker or any lockon launcher, while way better against MBTs and slow moving ground vehicles, and basically useless against infantry

a few days ago i saw a squad of TR destroying a VS armor column with a squad of Fracture maxes on a hill, it was very effective, but it was the first time i saw that in the last.... two years, while even squads made out of random people on Miller VS seem to understand how powerfull such a thing is, the TR and NC very rarely use them, or at least i see them very rarely use them

at the end we countered them to hell by pulling about 20 AI ESFs and basically nuked them, which also rarely happens as a VS lancer squad on a hill, all the while the banshee is still a beast against Infantry

tl;dr: striker needs a buff in rocket velocity OR damage, but group tactics will always be OP

I main TR but have VS alt. The one thing that stands out when I play as TR, is how almost every VS HA moves much much faster just moving or shooting or adading. I very rarely see this fighting NC. I know this is not scientific in any way but it is noticeable for me. I can see why people come to the forums to complain. As to the solution... I have none. I just make sure I have as many friendlies around as possible if fighting them.

Reading the OP made my brain hurt. L2English m8.

As a fellow Cobalt player (about ~ 900h VS, and now been maining TR for ~300h) the VS zerg is one of the 2 things which i felt happened less as VS player, because obviously i was on the better side of it, but that's not all.

There's also what i've dubbed: "the MLG brigade" . By which i mean that when i fight VS, there's definitely a higher proportion of HAs, and they're on average (the top TR/NC ones being just as potent) better than the usual TR/NC HAs. The ones i've so-dubbed being mostly 25~30% accuracy/HSR Betelgeuse users, which can completely imbalance a non-zerg fight at equivalent pop.
These guys are basically one-men armies: good positioning and gun control, no need for engineers because Betelgeuse, Battle Hardened 3/4, regenerating shield because killing stuff often (and indefinitely) with adrenaline shield, no need for medics, because 4 medkits on their probable nanoweave5 with regenerating overshield make for remarkable synergy in abilities.

It doesn't happen all the time of course, but i remember an alert i played in around 3 weeks ago in prime time, where the order of guns by number of kills showed the Orion on top (the usual everywhere i suppose), but also the Betelgeuse second, and VS HA population around 25% higher than either NC or TR HA population on that specific alert!

Trac-5 and derived guns are lacking over range. You probably have around ~20% less effective range than you would with default TR/NC equivalents at a mid-long given range.
Not that it's such a bad gun, but that big vertical bias is hurting in a perceptible manner compared to either Solstice/Merc, or Jaguar, or even how T1 Cycler/Carv fare in other categories. Though you do get used to it and TRs often exagerate horizontal recoil on these boards, balance on the Trac family could be better.
Igorawr's accurately described the issue in this video.
On a broader scale i believe no "all-rounder" gun should exhibit such a pronounced bias, while some CQC guns should probably be nerfed with a degree of bias (namely Jaguar, Orion and Bandit) to make them less efficient at mid-range.

Not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing =p

Ya once you know what you're doing NC weapons are generally much more powerful because of how accurate things like gauss saw are along with the oomph. Tr is a bit more middle of the road and their 125 damage guns require some retraining of timing. Forgiving though for the sake of some weapons that do have the no drop or point and click aspects makes them far easier to pick up if your control isn't good yet. Eidolon, comets, lancer, lasher all are far more forgiving for a new person because they don't need to care as much about figuring out arcs or curving or even maintaining aim. Doesn't make them better but from a new person standpoint they are way easier to figure out "I point it there, it goes!"

And ya one on one lasher is gonna get killed but two or three good lasher users in a base defense of assault? They can make life hell to get out of some places. I racked in kills and assists like mad with it on my vs toon at some bases where I just kept spitting balls of zap at a doorway and TR kept running through or into it or trying to run back and died. It is a powerful tool if people use it right.

I've never said vs are op, but easier to jump into and learn overall is how I see the faction, mainly since their default weapons are generally solid and a few things like no drop aren't op but they make the experience slightly simpler for the new folks.

As far as the whole "orion is best omg!" I don't believe it myself, I enjoy flare and ursa more, but people looking around to use the "best" guns see that whole arguement an go after it and the battle goose being such a strong upgrade to an already good platform makes vs stand out to those who only want the "best"