125dmg tier - underutilized and pointless on TR.

Taemien · Jun 14, 2015

Neur0tek said: ↑

“Aren't the TR supposed to be high ROF with medium damage?”

High RoF, Low dmg for TR
Med RoF, Med dmg for VS
Low RoF, High dmg for NC

On average.. there are some overlaps.

sindz · Jun 15, 2015

Shotgunslap said: ↑

“Let's just average some reload speeds on ARs.
TR short: 3.09 seconds.
TR long: 4.09 seconds.
VS short: 1.9 seconds.
VS long: 2.445 seconds.

VS have CONSISTENTLY lower reload speeds than everyone else. Guess it's just a coincidence if not a faction thing, huh?

EDIT: Plus, there's only ONE AR with a long reload over 3 seconds on Vanu. Just saying.”

Sigh.

Read what i wrote. Its ROF and mag size dependent. Its not faction specific. You want a 40mag gun to reload the same speed as a 30 one - and generally higher ROF? That wouldnt totally break the game.

Huh, right?

prodo123 · Jun 15, 2015

Taemien said: ↑

“I actually don't think it will be that bad. We're talking .56s TTK versus .48s

So the Gauss SAW would be 428 RPM instead of 500. And that isn't much slower than the current Assault Rifle: A-Tross.”

I'm sorry but that sounds horrible. SAW fires slow enough already at 8.33 bullets per second. A-Tross fires at 7.817/second. You're bringing the SAW down to 7.133 per second, and the A-Tross to 400 RPM, or 6.67/second. As a comparison, Lasher fires at 333 RPM.

TTK-wise it sounds like no big deal, but consider how that works out in terms of actual bullets fired.

Shotgunslap · Jun 15, 2015

sindz said: ↑

“Sigh.

Read what i wrote. Its ROF and mag size dependent. Its not faction specific. You want a 40mag gun to reload the same speed as a 30 one - and generally higher ROF? That wouldnt totally break the game.

Huh, right?”

GR-22 reloads at 2.45 short, and 3.3 long. H-V45 does the short at 2.56 and the long at 3.2. Both have the same 30 round mag, and 800 ROF.
Or the Gauss Rifle to the Equinox. Gauss at 1.95 short, 2.6 long. 1.875 on the short, 2.3 long for the Equinox. The Equinox even has a slightly higher ROF. If you think the VS just doesn't have faster reloads, you're not looking at stats.

sindz · Jun 15, 2015

Shotgunslap said: ↑

“GR-22 reloads at 2.45 short, and 3.3 long. H-V45 does the short at 2.56 and the long at 3.2. Both have the same 30 round mag, and 800 ROF.
Or the Gauss Rifle to the Equinox. Gauss at 1.95 short, 2.6 long. 1.875 on the short, 2.3 long for the Equinox. The Equinox even has a slightly higher ROF. If you think the VS just doesn't have faster reloads, you're not looking at stats.”

AR, cant really compare here because TR have extra bullet mag sizes so cant really compare, and other than that NC are usually slower rof with higher dmg so its comparable to VS either, and the faster ROF NC AR's doesnt compare to anything VS have.

GR-22 reloads faster short and slower long , han HV-45 as you pointed out VS doesnt win that one, its tied. If anything NC wins since short reload is more important.

LMG that share the same rof and mag size:

Orion vs MSW - 3,28 / 3,655 vs 3.045 / 3,305
T16 vs Polaris 3,96 / 4,925 vs 3,96 / 4,925
TMG 50 vs Flare - 4,24 / 5,225 vs 4,24 / 5,225

Carbine that share samish stats, again cant compare to TR since its more bullets pr mag, again also comparing to NC is tricky since they have only 1 143dmg weapon:
GD-7F vs Serpent - 2,7 / 3 vs 2,59 / 2,89 - first one VS wins with.
Razor vs Pulsar c - 1,67 / 2.61 vs 1.66 / 2

SMG again is 143 vs 167 vs 125 dmg, cant compare again.

as its clearly shown in the weapons you can compare, reload speeds isnt a VS trait, if guns share the same ROF & dmg model they have almost exactly the same stats. And the reason VS might seem like they have faster reloads is because the 143dmg models are so weak in damage they need something to make them semi viable (its not enough!) Since TR trait with more bullets pr mag is way better and NC 200dmg model and 167/600 dmg model are tons better aswell if you can aim.

So VS have no bullet drop, which is pointless on all infantry weapons.

Taemien · Jun 15, 2015

prodo123 said: ↑

“I'm sorry but that sounds horrible. SAW fires slow enough already at 8.33 bullets per second. A-Tross fires at 7.817/second. You're bringing the SAW down to 7.133 per second, and the A-Tross to 400 RPM, or 6.67/second. As a comparison, Lasher fires at 333 RPM.

TTK-wise it sounds like no big deal, but consider how that works out in terms of actual bullets fired.”

It sounds bad until you realize the other factions' weapons are doing the same thing. I actually don't think it'd be that bad.

FlatironmanX · Jun 15, 2015

Flagonswarm said: ↑

“So we've got the Lynx, the Torq, and our SMGs are both 125 tier which is kinda boring since so are NS ones but whatever. No 125 tier LMG yet.

The Lynx is kind of a worse Jaguar right now.
The Torq is very similar to the T1 Cycler, but it's a good gun and probably the only one I'd consider a success.
The Armistice is okay if you like your SMGs to be almost limited to shotgun ranges. The Hailstorm is just...bad.

These guns don't do a lot for us relative to NC's 200dmg tier. NC's higher damage tiers are nigh-indisputably better at range than anything else in their categories right now(provided you can handle their recoil and bloom). The same is just not at all true for TR's. They're variation without a unique strength. It's clear that we're not to have the lowest TTK automatics due to being the RoF faction, otherwise the Lynx would be a different gun than it is now. They're just slightly better or worse variations of short-mid range guns in our already-overloaded-with-short-to-mid-range-guns-arsenal.

I would like to see the TR's 125 tier have a more focused niche, and that niche can't be short range because the other factions won't accept short range superiority (rightfully so consider most of infantry combat happens there).

TR is reputed as kind of a poor accuracy faction. That's what 125dmg tier needs to address. They're the answer to giving us guns that don't have such a damage per mag advantage that the devs feel needs to be balanced with accuracy penalties. Because 125dmg*40rounds = 5000dmg, about equal to the 167*30 and 200*24 guns.

How do we make that work though? Well how about no or even negative FSRM? SABR style. Almost like firing the first two bullets with no recoil - this would allow TR to put out quick accurate bursts that can actually rival a 200dmg tier bullet. And longer minimum damage range is a given, of course. Then smaller ADS CoFs and good bloom values.

The RoF doesn't need to be super high either. They don't need amazing TTK - it'd make them too good as close range weapons.”

Completely agree with this, in fact I posted a similar thread recently.

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125dmg tier - underutilized and pointless on TR.

Taemien

sindz

prodo123

Shotgunslap

sindz

Taemien

FlatironmanX

125dmg tier - underutilized and pointless on TR.

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