[Actually serious] Maxes should be deleted from Planetside 2

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Mustarde, Jun 14, 2015.

  1. BuzzStar

    What I find odd about post like these is that on average you'll only see 2-3 maxes at a given fight unless its a max crash. Is 3 random maxes such an challenge for ppl? A well trained squad can finish them off easily. If anything ravens, and scattmaxes are the main gripes ppl have with maxes, how many OP threads have you seen lately of OP fracture or OP ZOE ?

    I know Mustard has been around since beta but why is he now having an issue with maxes as if this is all somehow new to him? Yeah max crashes do end good fights, but is that so much maxes fault or is it because of bad level design and the overall base capturing mechanics. This game focuses so much on sending +100 forces on point 'A', of course your going to get ****** maxes crashes, tank spam, massive redeploy side, zergs ect. .

    Say you take maxes out of the game, what do you think will be next on the chopping block? You better believe its HA shields, then vanu, ect . whatever is slightly OP will always be a gripe for the ps2 community. This game was never designed with a red vs blue game mechanic like you see in battlefield or CoD where each side has equal footing . PS2 is based around a rock paper scissor mechanic, there will always be something unbalanced to counter something else.
    • Up x 6
  2. AxiomInsanity87



    I can't show you that mtric, but you can at least see for yourself that people do buy Max cosmetics in game by looking at maxes. That means it generates revenue. People don't get them for free unless there's some haxx I've never heard of and that station cash hack was fixed ages ago.

    Like I said, I'm all for balance and tweaks, but no removal.
    • Up x 1
  3. PostalDude


    Because they are the new trendy thing to whine about. It was Heavy Assault a month ago.
    • Up x 3
  4. Iridar51

    I wasn't even talking to you. Can't stop clinging to me, can you?

    Care about stats or not, they reflect your worth as a player. Therefore, how deep of an insight can you offer. Not a lot, in your case.

    There totally can be a mature wise guy who knows how to play but just doesn't have the reflexes to, due to age or health problems, or even inferior hardware.

    Judging by your immature responses and ad hominem arguments, you're not one of them.

    Disagreeing with me is disagreeing. This is what you said:
    "Will you quit ****posting for once."
    "your trashy Infantry focused world"
    "Stay mad Eurotrash"
    This is trolling.
  5. PostalDude


    Alright then, how about we stop ****-flinging for a moment, and type out well structured arguments about our viewpoints. You start.
  6. AxiomInsanity87

    How about the much more survivability but halved damage idea?.

    That way a Max is still a dependable and cool looking tank and with accuracy, can still wreck.

    A bit like what happened to libs and tanks.
  7. Migs


    Rockets/missiles:
    Fractures, Ravens, Falcons
    Grenade launcher:
    Pounders
    Not a warhead/grenade launcher:
    Vortex (Laser) and Comets (Plasma orbs)
  8. Iridar51

    Mustarde already said everything.
  9. zuka7

    Causality. Cause and effect. Interesting that you don't mention your crusade on "rocket primary" in this thread and how it relates to everything you said. Resource changes only amplified it. Conditi0ns streams often and I suggest you watch him destroy Maxe's 1v1 with HA. Since everyone likes getting instagibed by a camping BR10 Infiltrator with insta invisible-insta kill straight pull bolt action sniper rifle from 10 miles away while we try to stand still and aim precisely by controlling that cone of fire then I don't see how getting instagibed by a max is a problem.
    [IMG]
  10. Mustarde



    A couple answers to your post

    1) I often see more than 2-3 maxes at a fight. It all depends on the base, the outfits present and other random factors, but the meta (at least on Emerald) is one of escalation. Each side keeps bringing more maxes to the fight until it's MAX vs MAX with everyone else acting as support or fodder.

    2) The reason for bringing this up is, while maxes have long been overpowered, the terrible state of resource system now allows for a near endless supply of maxes at each fight. No more cooldown timers, no scarcity of nanites, and combined with the existing power and revivability, they can be used with near reckless abandon.

    3) I agree with you regarding asymmetric balance, and it's one of the things that I love about PS2. However, I believe that maxes are the bane of infantry, vehicles AND air. Stepping away from infantry-centric discussion, consider the epic tank battles we used to have when this game first came out. What has changed? After release, the devs added long range AV to both infantry and maxes, which essentially made vehicle convoys obsolete. If any outfit is dumb enough to pull a convoy from the warpgate, rest assured they will get nuked on approach by a lancer/raven nest and laughed off the server. This is sad to me, and while I don't think we need to bring back big tank zergs, I do think that vehicles are largely irrelevant because of maxes.

    4) Personally I am fine with HA's as they are. Except, I did think they needed to sacrifice mobility with a 0.9 movement modifier to compensate for the firepower and utility they posses. I'm not out to nerf EVERYTHING that is strong in this game, but there are some aspects that have been long overlooked since launch, and have become more out of place as the rest of the game evolved (i.e. sticky grenades still have the original blast radius that the frags used to have, etc).



    Also, Iridar and the other dude - I don't know how this became about LA's and tanks, but damn you guys sent this thread on a bender. Mind bringing it back home to the part where we delete maxes from the game? :)
    • Up x 1
  11. AxiomInsanity87

    Lol.

    Yeah lets start again.

    Go!.
  12. Neur0tek

    Or do this....Engineer (Design) some new weapons that are better against a Max and let the player make a micro transaction to purchase the weapon since he/she really has a problem with the class and likes to kill them. Now this player is even more specialized and can setup one of the many loadouts he/she has available to use, to deal with the max issue currently plaguing the base.

    Now the Max will have to think about what he/she is going to do next since there is a new weapon out there that NS has created just to put them down. Or, NS now creates an armor plating or shielding for the Max that is specifically designed to armor or shield against this new threat. Creating a new object in the depot for Maxes and another micro transaction. Now the Max becomes more specialized, giving it a role on the battlefield besides being a tank that fits through doors.

    Isn't that balance and commerce and development and gameplay all in the same idea? Some of playing the game is your responsibility too. Not just point and click. "Immerse" yourself in the game and play. Maybe ask for new items or new class ideas from the Devs instead of the usual "Nerf it!", "Remove it!" "I can't play this game, I have no mind of my own."

    Like putting dumbfire on the Phoenix in Planetside and quicker reload. Didn't see as many brave Maxes after that came out.

    You're playing it wrong!
  13. Lenox

    You bring up a lot of good points, but it seems like you're describing a symptom of an incomplete game design. This is going to be rather anecdotal, but a while ago I introduced five new players to the game, and we were defending a base. Our opposition was a VS outfit comprised mostly of veteran players that tried to take the base, and we miraculously rebuked their efforts. They were quite happy, seeing as they were brand new to the game and managed to complete a single objective. Then the VS outfit came back with a full galaxy, and all eleven of them were in MAX suits. It sucks, but I'd argue there are better alternatives than trimming or cutting out game content.

    Yes, abusing force multipliers such as vehicles and MAX suits don't promote a great gaming experience, but I think we should look at why they're abused in the first place--ease of access.

    It's too easy to pull them. Resources are common pool and abundant. It doesn't at all feel like a war of attrition when everything is so readily available. At least with the timers there was a cap to the rampages. How long has it been since we were promised a complete resource system with a full harvesting system and ability to cut off enemy resources? A Year? Two? I don't want to tell you your business, but I think everyone's energy would be better directed at pressuring the devs at delivering on the promises they made. Make players have to actually think about pulling a MAX suit, make it a consequence for pulling one too frequently.

    As a side note, there could always be better counters to such force multipliers as well, and the new ability for mines are a good step. However, I always thought EMP grenades should have a similar, if not the same, effect on MAX suits as concussion grenades. They should jam a MAX's weapons and hinder their movement. Power armor doesn't work without power. It'd at least give the infiltrators something on the big, stompy robots.
    • Up x 1
  14. Garmus

    I definitely wouldn't say "MAXes are poor game desing". If anything, then it is exactly the opposite. For me, MAXes are exactly the very thing that makes the Planetside 2 unique in comparison with other MMOFPS games. MAXes brings another gameplay style and specific tactic to the game, which is always a nice game improvement. I can agree that they are not precisely balanced, but personally I prefer to play a slightly unbalanced MAXes with specific and unique gameplay (CQC instakill shotguns vs almost infinite dakka-dakka vs omg-these-fancy-lasers) rather than game with three factions with same weapons with same [insert whatever you can imagine] with same everything only with different colors.

    TL;DR: Let MAXes stay in the game, they makes this game unique among other FPS games.

    Imho if there should be anything ridiculous removed from the game, it should be the cloaking ability from infiltrators/flash-vehicles. But for the same fact as i wrote above, I actually do not want cloaking to be removed from the game even if it is ridiculous and very strange - because it adds another unique specific gameplay style to the game, so it improves the overall gameplay experience.
    • Up x 1
  15. Morti

    I can sort of get behind this but it's really too late in the game to remove it completely.

    Perhaps they would nerf AI weapons and convert NC shotguns to LMG's. Would like to see MAX "weapons" that support tanks/infantry. Like that reinhardt guy in overwatch.

    I look forward to seeing if/how tank mines and AMR change things. My gut is telling me that nothing much will change. MAX runs EOD hud and always know where explosives are, AMR probably very impractical to carry all the time so most people will only pull it out for AV/AA maxes camped out on hills.
  16. Iridar51

    Ye sry, I've always been bad at ignoring people that obviously deserve to be ignored.
  17. toast2250

    Its not that maxes don't need changing, its just that suggesting to remove maxes is a silly proposal since its not going to happen and people should know better.

    In my opinion I would,
    - Limit max amount of max you can pull either per region or continent
    - Give them more resistance or health
    - Reduce damage

    I never pull a max since its not worth the resources personally, except for AA. On the other hand MAX's are annoying to deal with.
  18. Crator

    I like the max. It provides variety and challenge for me (I don't use it, I fight against them.)
    • Up x 1
  19. RykerStruvian

    Every class/thing people complained about in PS2 should be removed. MAXs should be removed ASAP so that everyone will shut the **** up about it. Then we can remove all air units from the game along with all lockons. After than, we can get rid of the heavy assault class and flashes along with Fury. Then remove VS entirely from the game too. Get rid of Hossin since people complain about that too. And SMGs.

    The only thing that should be in the game are combat medics with access to battle rifles. **** class with **** guns that cant do ****.

    On a non-sarcastic note, I can't believe someone whois been playing since release made a QQ MAX thread. Go play Dirty Bomb if you like it and leave PS2 alone.
  20. BuzzStar

    1. I play on emerald as well for over two years now, while I'm not in your shoes I can say that there is a difference in size between max crashes and 3-5 maxes ( if that many). A max crash will stop a platoon, 5 won't. Will that one Max drop you dead maybe if he gets you first but It won't stop your team unless your under pop or if your team is not good. You mention escalation of force and yes this does happen a lot even in small fights but imagine if you did take maxes out of the game how would it be any different? You would still have escalation of force, each side matching the other sides numbers. Infantry would be fodder to with medics reving.

    2. Your second point pretty much sums up the half *** resource system that was never finished which IS PART OF THE REAL PROBLEM.

    3. Higby was going to add phase 2 to the armor revamp which was supposed to add more health for tanks but like many things it was never added. In the end it all goes back to half *** revamps that Higby never finished which is and always have been the real problem of PS2. Ravens were not an issue when they first came out since few ppl had them but now everyone has a pair, however does anyone ever complain how strong fractures are? Vortex could maybe use a small NERF but it's nothing like the laser guided spam fest that is Ravens. If there's one NERF to maxes it should be Ravens.

    4. I play mostly LA and Eng. it is way more frustrating to die to the I WIN BUTTON then to a max, why? A max has way more health with duel guns, As an engi I won't be able to kill him unless I can get close enough to use c4, so if I round a corner and I get insta killed by another random max I won't rage quit because it's not different then running in front of a tank. But to die to a guy after I waste a full clip only to lose because he " I WINNED IT "is cheap. HA are the litte brother of maxes with all the versatility of maxes with the movement capabilities of normal infantry, oh yeah don't forget OHK rockets. So the solution is to delete maxes and HA? Then guess what pops up its ugly head, tanks, air, ect. It's like the food chain take out a nasty animal only to see its prey multiply and become a bigger problem. Instead of killing the animal just saw down its teeth, try soft NERF, experiment with new ideas ect.

    There's something to be said about the comunity advice to, it's like the whole gripe about redeployside. Everyone thought the solution was to get rid of it completely, then when it went up in test center everyone relized " oh **** it's actually is really inconvenient to move around like this". Or back when everyone thought implants were going to ruin the game.

    Does the game need balance pass, most definitely, does it need its core content that makes up the mechanics of the game ripped out? No
    • Up x 1