125dmg tier - underutilized and pointless on TR.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Flagonswarm, Jun 13, 2015.

  1. Flagonswarm

    So we've got the Lynx, the Torq, and our SMGs are both 125 tier which is kinda boring since so are NS ones but whatever. No 125 tier LMG yet.

    The Lynx is kind of a worse Jaguar right now.
    The Torq is very similar to the T1 Cycler, but it's a good gun and probably the only one I'd consider a success.
    The Armistice is okay if you like your SMGs to be almost limited to shotgun ranges. The Hailstorm is just...bad.

    These guns don't do a lot for us relative to NC's 200dmg tier. NC's higher damage tiers are nigh-indisputably better at range than anything else in their categories right now(provided you can handle their recoil and bloom). The same is just not at all true for TR's. They're variation without a unique strength. It's clear that we're not to have the lowest TTK automatics due to being the RoF faction, otherwise the Lynx would be a different gun than it is now. They're just slightly better or worse variations of short-mid range guns in our already-overloaded-with-short-to-mid-range-guns-arsenal.

    I would like to see the TR's 125 tier have a more focused niche, and that niche can't be short range because the other factions won't accept short range superiority (rightfully so consider most of infantry combat happens there).

    TR is reputed as kind of a poor accuracy faction. That's what 125dmg tier needs to address. They're the answer to giving us guns that don't have such a damage per mag advantage that the devs feel needs to be balanced with accuracy penalties. Because 125dmg*40rounds = 5000dmg, about equal to the 167*30 and 200*24 guns.

    How do we make that work though? Well how about no or even negative FSRM? SABR style. Almost like firing the first two bullets with no recoil - this would allow TR to put out quick accurate bursts that can actually rival a 200dmg tier bullet. And longer minimum damage range is a given, of course. Then smaller ADS CoFs and good bloom values.

    The RoF doesn't need to be super high either. They don't need amazing TTK - it'd make them too good as close range weapons.
    • Up x 1
  2. PostalDude


    Good luck getting devs to buff TR.
  3. Cyrek

    What if our 125 dmg weapons had a minimun range of 200, literally do its advertised damage at any range, sounds good to me.
  4. Flagonswarm

    That would be overpowered though.
  5. Crayv

    Problem with 125 weapons is that 143 teir is already near the RoF limit that the game can handle. So we can't have a 125 weapon with same TTK as the fast firing 143 ones.
    • Up x 1
  6. FieldMarshall

    My problem with ~900+ rof weapons is that they have so much recoil that i dont even.
    The TORQ is pretty good, but its a TR AR so that is to be expected.
  7. KirthGersen

    I like Lynx more than, as example, GD-7F cuz it feels more precise with ADS.
  8. Kristan

    o_O

    That's one of my main weapons to use on Inf/LA and it's anything but bad.
  9. Taemien


    After reading this, I was thinking.

    Maybe put the 125 at those limits and dumb down the rest of the tiers. So the fastest weapons (on average) are 750RPM @125 damage.

    Raise the TTK across the board. By about 16%
  10. prodo123

    I think it's a little more complex than that. Take into account the speed at which players move, both IRL and virtually. Slower TTK will improve everyone's aim because there will be more time to adjust aim between shots. On the other hand, players will be able to move more while getting shot, increasing the chance that they will get away with at least a sliver of health (e.g. strafing with Orion).

    Then there's the perceived "satisfaction" for which players will feel with each gun. If the Gauss SAW shot at 400 RPM instead of the current 500, people would get bored of it because it shoots too damn slow. It would affect the general pace of the game, which is fine as it already is.

    It's striking the balance between these factors which make balancing a game a difficult task.
  11. Pikachu

    There are weapons with 1000rpm.
  12. Iridar51

    I don't know where people keep getting that high damage guns have bloom problems.
    143 damage blooms by 0.05 per shot, 200 damage guns bloom by 0.07 per shot.
    Both of them bloom for exactly the same 0.00035 per point of damage done.

    On the other hand, 125 damage guns have the same bloom as 143 damage weapons, so they bloom more per point of damage done, so it's 125 damage guns that have bloom issues.
  13. Mustarde

    If you can't appreciate how good the Armistice, TORQ and Lynx are for the TR arsenal, then you really can't appreciate great weapons in this game!

    I will agree with the OP that we should get a 125 dmg LMG. I'd love them to TORQ the Rhino.
    • Up x 3
  14. sindz

    Want to trade with the VS 143/652 & 143/698 weapons? also they only have 30 bullet mag sizes aswell.

    125 bullet dmg weapons atleast have a very high ROF and the same mag size to compensate.

    VS boring weapons and if LMG changes go trough, pointless guns:

    Polaris 652
    SVA - 698
    LSW - 698
    CME - 652
    Equinox - 652
    Pulsar VS1 - 698
    Corvus - 526 (yep, lowest dmg weapon in the entire game and the accuracy is not enough to make up for that fact)
    Solstice- 698
    Solstice SF - 652

    Atleast with the added 125dmg model you get more diversity in your arsenal, meanwhile VS really are lacking in every single regard as they have the most boring and bland arsenal in the entire game.

    Its not only TR who has a lacking arsenal in some regards, atleast TR got their "trait" implemented more so in their arsenal.

    PS:
    And let me stop people from quoting me and spewing a few lies: No, VS doesnt have faster reloads, reload speed is ROF and mag size dependent, apart from standard starting weapons. Faster reloads is not a VS trait.
  15. Shotgunslap


    Let's just average some reload speeds on ARs.
    TR short: 3.09 seconds.
    TR long: 4.09 seconds.
    VS short: 1.9 seconds.
    VS long: 2.445 seconds.

    VS have CONSISTENTLY lower reload speeds than everyone else. Guess it's just a coincidence if not a faction thing, huh?

    EDIT: Plus, there's only ONE AR with a long reload over 3 seconds on Vanu. Just saying.
  16. Taemien



    I actually don't think it will be that bad. We're talking .56s TTK versus .48s

    So the Gauss SAW would be 428 RPM instead of 500. And that isn't much slower than the current Assault Rifle: A-Tross.

    So the feel and satisfaction won't be affected much. I say much because yes it will feel like a nerf across the board. People won't die as quickly. I mean its only .08s difference.. but believe it or not... you can feel that. It will be felt. But it will allow for weapons in the TR arsenal that have 965RPM @100 damage.

    The side effect is yes, people will survive with a sliver of health more frequently, you will see less kill trading as we're probably pushing the TTK longer than tickrates. I really don't see this as a bad thing. It will allow for slightly more tactical gameplay over twitch shooting.

    One thing I would do to make it so fights don't seem like they stalemate from this, is restrict the spawn mechanics even more. I mean people will be surviving more, so going where you wish isn't as important as if you were dying super quickly. Something like this:

    1. Warpgate
    2. Base you died/redeployed in.
    3. Base your squadleader is in (if its one base away)
    4. Squad Beacon
    5. Occupied squad Gal/Sundy/Valk
    6. Deployed Sundy within 1000m of where you died/redeployed
    7. Reinforcement request if your side has less than 50% in said area, treated as if you died/redeployed at the spot the request is made.

    The other interesting side effect is Vehicles get a buff without having their lethality increased. I wouldn't touch their fire rates or damage values. I mean the TTK to kill a vehicle would remain unchanged, and the TTK for a vehicle to kill infantry would remain unchanged. But vehicles would just have a slight edge over infantry in killing infantry compared to now. But like I said without nerfing or buffing anything vehcile to infantry or infantry to vehicle. That's not too bad.

    Sorry if I seem like I'm derailing the thread a bit. It was an interesting set of ideas on how to make the 125 dmg tier.. cooler and more common.
  17. Ogopogo

    Out of curiosity, is it possible to have infantry weapons which fire 2 shots at a time beyond shotguns? And with that in mind, would it be possible to give one shot a slightly slower velocity ?

    If the game has a ROF limit, it might be possible to simulate, in a manner of speaking, guns with extremely high rate of fire for close to mid range weapons.
  18. Neo3602


    I don't see why not though I don't know about having the second shot having a slower velocity than the first.
  19. RedArmy

    the Lynx, and the Torq, are some of the best TR guns there is, and if you dont think so than your using them wrong. the accuracy on them are excellent at short/medium ranges, miles above the SMGs by comparison.
  20. Neur0tek

    Aren't the TR supposed to be high ROF with medium damage?