Long Range TR Infantry Weapons

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by FlatironmanX, Jun 3, 2015.

  1. Goretzu

    If you can 100% headshot in close range then the NC6 SAW is your beast, but in general, for most people it is not.
    Bizarrely my best ever short range kill streak came with an hipfired EM6 with grip and comp with a hipfire CoF the size of Hossin, it just so happened that in those circumstances I kept running into people at 0-3m whilst firing with it! :D (I actually got a hackusation after it too!)

    I agree the Anchor is definately IMO the best NC CQB LMG though, I just disagree that it is a superb close range LMG, rather than a superb mid range one (that remains good close and long range).
  2. Iridar51

    There are several things that make high-damaging weapons better at range:
    1. lower horizontal recoil that they get for some unknown reason
    2. lower first shot recoil multiplier makes incoming recoil more consistent when bursting
    3. damage comes in large chunks, it's harder to regulate on receiving end. a lucky headshot can finish an enemy outright.
    Here's a concept of low damage and high rate of fire TR-themed ranged weapon.
    Codename: TRange. The concept is an Assault Rifle with performance goal at the level of Reaper DMR.
    • TRange has 125 @ 10m - 112 @ 55m damage model and 800 rate of fire. This gives TTK similar to Reaper DMR's.
    • Horizontal recoil needs to be adjusted. The proposed TRange should have around 0.15/0.15 horizontal recoil before forward grip, and low Horizontal Tolerance of 0.3 or 0.4.
    • Access to standard set of ranged attachments.
    • Because TRange fires often, it should have low vertical recoil per shot, around 0.275. Overall, vertical recoil per second is the same as Reaper DMR, but the weapon easier to hold on target, as the recoil will feel like a constant pull instead of a rough shake. Increase to 0.3 if the weapon overall seems too good.
    • The most important thing: 125 weapons usually have same bloom per shot as 143 damage weapons. This is unacceptable for a ranged weapon. TRange should have 0.04 to 0.043 ADS CoF bloom to bloom the same as Reaper DMR per point of damage done.
    • Set velocity at about ~600 m/s, and don't provide a strong HVA bonus. Standard 40 round magazine will do fine, but 35 rounds would put it on the level of Reaper DMR. TR guns usually boast higher damage per magazine at the cost of longer reload, so maybe increase magazine size to 50. They are low caliber bullets after all. In that case, set reload at 2.5 / 3.0 seconds short / long.
    • And to spice things up, they can even make a negative FSRM of -1x. That would be kinda cute. Even if you try to aim at the head, the gun will kick your aim down to center mass.
    The end result is easy to control ranged weapon that produces a consistent damage output at range, but relies mostly on center mass spray rather than a lucky headshot, so it's okay to have a bit higher DPS at range than for Reaper DMR, especially considering that it has headshot BTK of 5 outside of maximum damage range, while Reaper DMR kills in 3 headshots at all ranges.

    It's absolutely possible for TR to have a ranged weapon without stepping on NC's toes. The only thing to be done is to rip away the habit of slapping lots of recoil and bloom on low damage weapons.
    • Up x 4
  3. Lord_Avatar


    The TORQ-9 is a prime example of a TR (high ROF) yet accurate weapon that works at range. The only other thing I would do is give 125 dmg tier weapons a lower COF bloom value than 143 dmg tier guns (as is the rule with regard to 143-167-200).
  4. Lord_Avatar


    I get your point. Overall (and by that I mean in the hands of average players who tend to aim center mass) ROF/DPS is what makes a good CQC weapon. In such engagements the MSW-R would be better than the Anchor. At the same time more experienced players naturally gravitate towards headshots at which point the Anchor overtakes the MSW-R (and I consider the MSW-R a beastly gun).

    Agreed on that?
  5. Iridar51

    TORQ is a T1 Cycler sidegrade, it functions at range as well as Cycler would. It's no rival to a proper ranged AR.
  6. Eternaloptimist

    I use high rof weapons for close quarters (MSW-R, Orion or EM1).Then good all-rounders for medium (T32 Bull, Anchor/EM6 or SVA 88). Long range? varies a bit: sometimes the all-rounders as above and sometimes T16 Rhino, TMG50 or SAW). I always use foregrip (adv foregrip on Rhino) and a comp if I can get one, plus SPA but never HVA. Based on these choices I don't see a huge difference between TR weapons and other faction weapons And Marksman (the > 75m kill directive is always the first one I get at each level in its particular category. That said, I recognise that my long range choices are all a bit of a compromise and there have been many posts saying that those weapons are not really optimised for long range.
  7. Goretzu

    Pretty much, I just wouldn't say that even the best players (or even best players at close range headshot) would always discard hipfire or not headshotting. Or indeed equally that RoF, DPS, CoF or movement accuracy have no effect on headshotting efficency.
  8. Lord_Avatar


    That it is, but it proves that a good ranged weapon doesn't have to be a slow ROF heavy-hitting slugger.
  9. Lord_Avatar


    I'm not discarding bodyshots, nor do I downplay the significance of having a turbo-ROF spray-a-tron ready to bail me out (I'm looking at you TRV). I simply tend to prioritize headshots which I believe to be a general trend among players looking to cut down their TTK.
  10. Iridar51

    TORQ isn't a good ranged weapon, that's the point. The only thing it proves is that 125 damage primary can be viable, which in my opinion TORQ barely is.

    Common sense and gunplay mechanics prove that a weapon doesn't have to be a slugger. TORQ only provides a baseline for comparison.
  11. Lord_Avatar


    Maybe we should define the effective range required of a gun to be considered a ranged weapon then?
  12. Subject851


    Like large clips and high rate of fire... Oh wait, VS and NC has that to.
  13. Iridar51

    What is and what isn't a ranged weapon isn't exactly a yes or no question. Things need to be considered in relation to each other.
    Cycler TRV will outrange any SMG, and Bolt Driver will outrange both of them. It makes sense to compare weapons within class only.

    As far as ARs go, TORQ's range is nothing special. As Cycler, it can sometimes reach out surprisingly far for a weapon that inclines to CQC a lot. But it has much shorter range than something like Corvus or Reaper, or even Gauss Rifle.

    If we were looking for a clean cut off, I'd say Gauss Rifle is where ranged ARs start. NS-11A is the only 143 damage AR that I would put into ranged category. Though I'm not versed in VS ARs, judging only from stats, Equinox, Pulsar and maybe even CME can also belong there.

    TR are kinda screwed in this department, as there isn't a single AR that I would put into ranged category without cringing. There is SABR, but I refuse to acknowledge PS2 version of burst weapon as an optimal thing.
  14. Shaggath

    No problem with range use the good weapon.

    La Engi -> cougar > t5amc .
    Medic -> Sabr > t1 cycler > torq
    HA -> Carv-s > tmg 50 > T32 > T16

    Try the carv-s for long range, i think you can put more longer accurate fire then tmg 50 the recoil is really better.
  15. AlterEgo

    And that is not the way to go. The right to bear large magazines and high fire rates should go to the TR. Then again, many weapons that are excellent in terms of accuracy or recoil belong to the NC and TR, and so on. That sucks; it means each faction has EXACT copies of other factions' weapons.
  16. Lord_Avatar


    I think there should be faction-exclusive tiers; so far this only works for the NC with their 200 dmg weaponry. VS should have the most accurate weapons (this is not to say that TR/NC weapons shoudn't be accurate, just not THAT accurate), TR should top the ROF in every weapon category (again, VS/NC should have fast-firing guns, just not THAT fast-firing) etc.
    • Up x 1
  17. FlatironmanX

    This is exactly what I'm suggesting.
  18. Subject851


    Just give acces to all weapons to everyone, problem solved, Its pretty dumb and unfair for VS to have the only viable long range weapons, TR have to fall back on ns for range and its bs.
  19. 00000000000000000000

    Except you have 10 bullets more than VS & NC on most of your weapons. Only NC LMGs match yours for magazine size (VS tend to cap around 50-75)

    So you basically get a free mini-extended mags on everything.

    And TR have the top 7 highest RoF weapons in the game. (Correct me if I'm wrong my data may be a tad old)

    Having high RoF doesn't mean you will always have the highest in every situation.
  20. Subject851

    It doesn't matter if we had guns that were 1000 rof, if the bullets just spray everywhere.