Modifications on LMGs on PTS

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by nehylen, May 28, 2015.

  1. asmodraxus

    So are the TR going to lose their top fire rate and be reduced to the highest the the VS have now?

    And are the NC going to lose the 200 damage model to compensate seeing at the VS are now the copy paste faction without anything going for them like mobility?

    But then seeing as the VS are OP with just their beamers... So much for actual asymmetrical balance make everything the same but worse for the VS whilst giving the good toys to the TR and NC.
  2. Grumblefern

    Maybe read the changes before posting? 'Cause your first two questions could be answered by reading it.

    Honestly, it's a good thing that they're visiting LMG balance and examining Heavy Assault class in general. They're bound to make some dumb initial changes but they're PTS changes so we shouldn't freak out yet!

    VS had "the good toy" for Heavy Assault for a loooooooooooooooooooooong time. I don't think we can complain about it going away, it's better to offer constructive criticism towards improving our LMG selection in general which has long been lacking aside from our 0.75 ADS guns. Also Betelgeuse is still going to be a great weapon for skilled players to indefinitely farm noobs without needing resupply.
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  3. Cinnamon

    Rhino used to be a decent alternative choice for TR because it's accuracy was considerably less terrible than the Carv. Not because it was actually good. Not sure about extending max damage range for these 2 lmg and they shouldn't just change LMG in this class.

    What I would do is
    1. Pull up all guns that are 143@652.
    2. Flat out change some to 698 if empire doesn't have a gun in that category (EM1) or has two in 652 category (CME. Rhino).
    3. Give the rest a minor buff to ads bloom/shot. For carbines also a minor buff to hip bloom/shot. These are supposed to be sustained fire weapons not burst weapons.

    As for hipfire I really just wish that they would undo the nerfs to laser sights that they did that time. I really didn't see the point to that other than to force people who prefer not to use iron sights to use iron sights more at really close range.
  4. Plastikfrosch



    Why the polaris? All TR starter weapons have 750rpm so why shouldnt all VS starter weapons get 698rpm? The perfect choice for a VS starter LMG would be the Pulsar LSW (without the option of an extended mag wich will be coming soon with the changes).

    EM1?? its the least NC like weapon in the game and a direct copy past polaris (and not nearly carv like - and by the way: ever heard of faction specific weapons; we have enough copy paste crap) --> Fun fact. you want polaris for VS and EM1 for NC so both weapons have 652rpm but the carv still has 750rpm. sound totally fair (coughironycough).
    The EM6 could be a fair starter weapon for the NC as long as it does lose the extended mag (at the moment the em6 is, while using the extended mag, the weapon with the highest damage per mag in this game) and it would share the damage profile of the NC starter carbine and AR BUT imo i like the saw and it feels the most NC like and has the same TTK as the EM6 while both weapons have a lower TTK as the Orion/carv.
    --> so while saying VS and NC should get other starter weapons you want the TR to be the only faction with a really strong starter weapon for the most common scenario ---> cqc, because most capture points are inside of small rooms where the carv would perform better than any other weapon.


    Who wants to play the Saw with HVA. Its a pretty good weapon with grip and compensator but the HVA forces you to use 1-2 shot bursts even on mid range because of the extreme recoil wich is caused by the HVA.

    And again, not everyone wants copy paste-factions. there is already enough (all cqc carbines -serpent/gd7f/lynx- and AR). i would not change the starter weapons, its good as it is. But yes, noone will really miss 0,75ads lmgs, only the cry babies will need to find another reason to get theire tissues out of the pocket.
  5. Plastikfrosch


    https://ps2model-axiom.rhcloud.com/#sttk/sh25-10-10/la/1/27000S/28000S/29000S

    As you can see, all 3 ES smgs nearly have the same TTK (the armistice may be a little faster but thats not an extreme difference) even over range so all factions will still have an CQC 0,75ADS option for HA.

    The only real difference as always is the damage per magazine:
    https://ps2model-axiom.rhcloud.com/#dpm/la/1/27000S/28000S/29000S
    where the Cyclone performs a lot better than the other two smgs and as nearly always the vanu weapon is on the end of the list of damage per mag --> only when it comes to copy paste weapons vanu will not have the lowes damage per mag.
  6. Grumblefern

    Cyclone has the lowest horizontal recoil by far making it easily the most versatile aside from arguably the NS SMGs with much higher TTK. You also need just 3 headshots(excluding shielded HA) to kill which is generally easier than landing 4 with a 143 dmg gun. The other SMGs are all very jittery, and even the Blitz is still better than any of TR or VS's faction specific SMGs.

    You can choose to ADAD ADS with the Cyclone beyond its comfortable hip-fire range, while it's kind of hopeless with most of the others.
  7. Cinnamon

    That site is very misleading since it doesn't consider the actual accuracy of the weapon as experienced by players and doesn't factor in headshots. Actually I would say that cyclone isn't too unbalanced for your average spray pray couldn't hit a barn door sort of player. But someone accurate who focusses on headshots like your competitive players is going to see a difference and it's going to be very superior to an LMG except at long range.
  8. Taemien


    Where the tears at? I'm actually a little surprised that VS hasn't made at least one post about it.

    Starting to prove my theory that its not the ADS speed that makes them choose it. And the weapon is being buffed outside the ADS change. If anything... its going to see more use. And the ADS can no longer be touted as the reason for it being 'OP'. In fact its really just a Carv with a 50 round magazine.

    I guess the debate will shift to hipfire next. :rolleyes:


    On another note.. those EM1 changes look... interesting. I dunno it will be enough, but I'm willing to give it a try.

    Anchor... I just don't see the point. Can anyone clue me in why you'd want to use this over a Cyclone or Blitz? I get that the SMGs won't do a ton of damage past 30m.. but isn't that a little beyond what the Anchor's effective range is anyway?
  9. Cinnamon

    Anchor is about as good at long range as any other rifle other than a bolt action.
  10. DegradedM

    In all honesty, I think removing the 0.75 m.m. is the right way to go. As it stands the VS HA can have maneuverablilty and durability aadvantages over other classes, and thats no way to go.

    The problem is that none of the other stats are even slightly buffed bar hipfire (whiich isnt a big selling point on LMGs). Orion now has the worst horizontal tolerance by a massive margin, no SPA, no ALS (whhich I could care less about but wtv) while having the same damage potential. The result is a gun which is just statistically inferior to msw-r, and arguably the anchor (which isnt so obvious due to different dmg models and RoF).

    Side note: If they can balance LMGs, will they ever rework the ARs? The CME and the pulsar VS1 could use a balance pass
  11. Takoita

    I'm not sure I see the logic behind the proposed changes for Rhino. Its lack of dakka in indoor confrontations is, IMHO, not the biggest problem of the gun, the shaky ads recoil pattern is. Unless it is being re-specced for close range? But why? Everything else and their grandma's dog is close range, better precision at not-point-blank ranges is what is sorely needed. Sure, it will further marginalize battle rifles, but they need a serious rehaul anyway.

    Does LSW really need those extended mags? I'm far from being experienced with the thing, but, since every other non-shotgun (and, in some cases, non-SMG) weapon that has access to that attachement is usually better served by the grip, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it will not see extensive use. Not without the gun having enough accuracy to get by on its own, at least.

    I'm also wondering why the dev team feels (or at least I assume so, given the reddit post) some other LMG need to do better at close-range run-and-gun. The last big change seemed to be aimed at making them less accurate in those kinds of situations and, given the oversaturation of guns whose optimal ranges are geared towards indoor combat, it appeared to be step in the right direction to me. Why the change of heart? I can see the LMG that'll lose the ads modifier getting compensated for it, but, in my opinion, letting shotguns, SMGs, carbines and ARs have an edge in indoor fighting over LMGs with LMGs' own optimal ranges being generally moved towards outdoor combat would improve the game overall.

    On a side note, I'm seeing a lot of people talking about Cyclone. IMHO, despite what they are saying, there are only two problems with that gun: it is too damn quiet, suppressor or no, and other factions' SMG are kind of left in the dust when faced with it in combat. TR SMG could especially use some more 'oomph', if you ask me.
  12. AlterEgo

    I wish they actually applied NEW changes that were specific to EACH LMG. Damage range and velocity should have increased on the EM1, accuracy should have increased and recoil should have decreased significantly on the Polaris, and the Rhino should have received a faster fire rate (at no cost of accuracy/recoil) along with a noticeably faster reload speed. These changes are just flat "modifications..." they don't make anything better (but don't make anything too worse, either).
  13. SteelMantis

    Haha, somehow I had a feeling that the Betelgeuse would get nerfed soon after I finally got around to unlocking it.

    Sure enough this was the first post I read after finishing off the LMG directive.o_O :( :mad:

    Not that I really disagree with some changes it seems pretty OP to me (although I did my last 2k+ LMG kills with weapons that didn't suit my playstyle so any decent LMG might seem OP compared to using the Ursa in tower fights). I am more concerned about the heat changes then losing the .75 movement.

    Honestly the game would be better off if they took the .75 movement off all weapons. It just promotes unrealistic left/right movement in firefights.
  14. HadesR

    Reddit
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  15. Eternaloptimist

    There are only two things I don't get in this conversation:
    • T32 Bull the worst LMG by far?? I find it excellent at all ranges with comp and foregrip and the high muzzle velocity
    • T16 Rhino previously sub-par?? with adv foregrip I found it good at medium to long ranges
    I have always felt that my play style is way off the norm based on reading these forums and the fact that I have the biggest kill tallies of all my LMGs with these two just reinforces that feeling.
    I have been running with the MSW-R for a while now because I have been engaging in more CQC and I like the high rate of fire but I am definitely going to give the T16 another go now that it has the buff.
    It's a little unfortunate that the T32 didn't get an extra reload to match other LMGs but not such a big deal really.
  16. asmodraxus

    I have read the changes my point is if the VS are to lose our ability that is mobility why should the NC and TR keep theirs ie high rate of fire and the 200 damage tier?

    If the TR and NC that cried and cried about the 0.75 ads want balance then maybe we should remove the top damage tier completely and reduce TR's AR and Carbine clip sizes and normalize all weapon damage and fire rates so its just Red vs Blue vs Purple with no differences between empires?
  17. FocusLight

    I am pretty much assuming that DBG will obviously tweak the weapons to be more in-line with their factions. I proposed the Polaris and EM1 or EM6 as the guns I figured would be least hard to tweak to be faction specific but more like the all-purpose guns that starter weapons are supposed to be.

    This is mostly because of a dilemma developing here: If the Orion is supposed to be the VS CQB LMG - and with 750 RPM and 50 rounds in a mag and 143 damage profile, it is - then it will need advanced laser sight and soft point ammo.

    But if it get's that the VS get their CQB LMG for free, and it will still result in imbalance. And yet, if they don't get those changes, it will be an inferior CQB LMG, crippled by the fact it's a starter weapon.

    The proposed solution then was to make a different LMG the starter one and just tweak it to be more all-purpose.

    And that lead to the idea of doing the same with NC, taking the Gauss SAW and making it a purchasable weapon and replacing it with the EM1 or EM6 modified to be more all-purpose in role as starter weapons.

    In truth I care not what guns replace the Orion/SAW as starter LMG's, so long as some do. And if the SAW become a mid-long range LMG it will need HVA just to have it. People can feel free to use it or not all they like, but it's still fair that they get it.

    I ma not trying to propose a bias here, I am indeed trying to propose what I think would be the most fair solution. The CARV si the TR 'all rounder' LMG, it's decent in CQB yes but it's the MSW-R that is intended for CQB, it's that gun that get soft point and advanced laser and so on. If the VS and NC both had more all-rounder LMG's to start with they would still be good in CQB, jsut not as good as a soft-point and advanced laser Orion or anchor will, guns you would then have to buy.

    I'm interested in fairness and a balanced starting pack for all new players, not to castrate NC and VS starter LMG options 'for the benefit of the TR' or something like that. Replacing one privileged faction with another does not a fix make.
  18. No_pi

    so ... after testing , there is no Vanu weapon specific , atm on PTS you just have blue bullets with high horizontal recoil , little magazine and no more 0.75 ADS ... playing Vanu will be just free certs.
  19. z1967

    1. and 2. Dude, its like, 3 weapons. They aren't going to nerf entire factions because 3 weapons lost their .75 ADS. Don't form a "my faction is the victim" complex. TR had it for awhile and by Vanu it was the most annoying thing ever.
  20. Shaggath

    I throw a saint grenade.
    Now 0.75 -> nanite weapon you trade ads for ttk good news no more weapon with all advantage.
    Orion was already a weapon with max lmg rpm and standard vanu trait.
    This was just a gift to populate vanu no more reason to keep that.
    Max rpm on vanu weapon was already a gift they not trade that for her natural trait.
    Nc can have weapon with 143 damage model but never have same rpm, like tr can have 167 model weapon without the rpm is always a copy but not perfect.
    Orion was the weapon with rpm/ads/no drop i can accept no drop is not a true advantage who can explain they can have perfect rpm copy but the ads was totally too much.
    You can cry but nothing can argue on that.
    There is no reason to apply rules on tr and nc and poe on that when it come to vanu.