[Vehicle] ESF hover mechanic. How it should actually work.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Kristan, May 25, 2015.

  1. entrailsgalore

    For an aircraft to fly in an atmosphere, it has to be pushed into the atmosphere with enough force to create enough lift. But for it to just hover, it would have to have some kind of force push or pull the aircraft up, against gravity, while being able to thrust up/down/left/right/etc. Helicopters achieve this with two blades, one that pulls the aircraft up, and one that stabilizes it. Maybe ESFs have two different forms of propulsion equipped? Standard aerodynamics as well as some sort of anti-gravity propulsion which lets it hover.

    That is just my best guess. I didn't realize that Planetside 2's flight model was following realistic physics and aerodynamics though. I always assumed that because it was just a game, there was some kind of unnamed future/alien technology that allows the ESF to hover, and break laws of aerodynamics as we currently know it in the 21-st century.
  2. Jawarisin

    so dumb it would be too long to point out everything.
  3. Ulas

    Why is it horrible?? It takes skill you fight facing your opponent only problem I see is lack of resources for begginers.
    You are making it look like planetside is losing players because of airgame. But honestly planetside is losing because it can't get any new players.
    1-Playing alerts or objectives are pointless. Game awards you for farming it doesn't award you for finishing of a sunderer. It awards you for camping the sundered and farming noobs spawning out of it. That's a huge problem too its completely contrary to what game wants to offer.
    performance issues!This one might be the reason If I quit someday. Even on decent pcs game runs unstable not using multi core futures. After an hour of gameplay it starts failing fps dropping down below 30 in any medium sized battle. (My specs are : (Intel i5 4690k and asus gtx 780) .

    Way too complicated. When I got into the actual game after the tutorial I was like wtf this isn't the game I just had a tutu rial on. Players usually quit without reaching br15.
  4. Kristan

    or maybe you have "posterior injury" due to fear of losing your precious "hover mad skillz"? :)

    I'm going to leave this thread to live on it's own. You might proceed spitting bile as much as you want, I don't care anymore. I brought discussion so let it be discussion, and not "me vs offended skyknights"
  5. BaronX13

    I'm up for whatever fix stops ESF's from being. 1.) Basically being unable to participate in a large fight (this goes for all air) or 2.) Being an unkillable menace in smaller fights.

    Now, I'm not sure what fixes would help of course as I mainly fly a Galaxy and unless a discussion is only about said vehicle, I wouldn't have the knowledge to make a good suggestion. All I can say is this, aircraft are in a ...bad...place right now simply because they either are too powerful, or completely useless, depending on the size of the fight and AA. They are NEVER in the middle ground. Truthfully, I think they should almost always be in the middle ground, and only sometimes be one way or the other. This is the main problem as I see it. Until somehow that problem is solved, aircraft are going to be a sore point.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't believe air is overpowered or underpowered right now, just that situations they either can or can't participate in are screwed up. About the only thing I have a problem with so far is with Liberators stomping MBT's without a chance for retaliation (not too big a deal, probably an easy fix, just mess with AA secondary on tanks), vulcans that can shoot libs/gals too easily and with too much power (again not too big a deal, easy fix they could just mess with resistances), and the val ( completely useless, lets be serious.)
  6. Ulas

    I think I found out something. In other games chance of getting matched with an ace pilot is lower. For example in battlefield generally ace pilots dominate matches and no one else flies in that match unless it's another really good pilot.
    In planetside map is open so a pilot can patrol a much larger area and kill more noobs. If that's what causes this hatred against current air game I don't imagine different flight styles will change the elitism in this game and ace pilots will keep dominating the game.
    Just sayin'
  7. Kristan


    No, that's not the reason of the idea I brought. It has nothing to do with elite players at all.
  8. MetalCotton

    This is so true it hurts.
  9. Yessme


    Sure for Personal attaks, now lets see, how i start.
    All my textn now i Show u how u suck really hard.

    and again, u talk about WW2 and there is no Hoover, but u ignore HA Shield, HOOVER Tank, LA with jump pads, 1 Faction Play with plasm. Nanite repair Tools, Medic Tools etc, u only talk about ESF, but nothing to the other Things, this was in ww2?, i dunno, never see an GJ with nanite repair tool in WW2, or a Plasm Gun..
    Than u start Talk about realism, but u ignore that a Tank Need more than 2 shoots for kill a Sundy, (in ww2 just 1 hit they Need to kill)
    In WW2 if u take a Headshot u instand Die, in that game u Need 2 or 3, How realism is that?
    In WW2 there is no tank who can Hoover
    U bring Arguments of WW2, but pointless, because u just ignore 75% of the gamephys.
    U only Talk about ESF, because u get bashed of some Pilots, again and again.
    Now u make Hatethreads about Things u can`t handle it in that game.
    U can`t fly in that game, u can`t search cover in that Game, that let me know u suck in that game.
    and now i Show u that u not only suck in that game, u suck in that Forum too.
    and my question was, how is Feeling if u hole time suck?
    And yes i personal attack u, because u r boring, u ignore Hole game, talk about WW2, and have no Arguments.
    u only a angry guy who can`t Play, and now only talk about Things who u suck, but din`t talk about Things they r the same ( MAG Hooverphy)
    + that game isn`t in a time of the WW2, that game is much in the Future, and this Point u ignore too..
    Ur Arguments just invalid and pointless.
    NOW DEVS PLZ ClOSE That THREAD. IS A POINTLESS THREAD
    • Up x 1
  10. Ulas

    Do you really believe that there is someone moderating forums even worse the game?? We are all alone here devs and mods don't give a **** about us:/
  11. Czarinov

    Could you please explain briefly why you think there is more "skill" involved in Warthunder than PS2 (taking in consideration ALL parts of skill). I tried playing Warthunder once but didn't like and thus I don't have any real experience with it.



    Gotta say I guess that's true. Before I would get temp banned for writing s hit.



    All true, Yessme.
  12. ColonelChingles

    Sure.

    Say for example in PS2 you see an aircraft below you that you want to shoot up. So you tip your nose down and aim at the target. You close distance with "w" and possibly use your thrusters. Then you press "s" to stop mid-air and begin the hoverfight, which consists of both aircraft attempting to point at each other and shoot while evading shots.

    I mean there's "skill" there of course. Aiming. And evading. That's how most A2A nosegun fights I've seen end up happening.

    In Warthunder you see an aircraft below you that you want to shoot up. First off, because there's like a bazillion different fighter classes and even fighters within the same class can vary, you need an intricate knowledge of your own aircraft as well as that of your target, knowledge which will dictate the tactics (to boom-and-zoom them or get into a turning-war). If we assume that we are going to dive into them, we run into a few other problems. The first is that there is actual physics in Warthunder, which means that objects in motion tend to stay in motion. There is no magical "s" button to make you stop in midair, and decreasing your throttle only begins to slow you down. So unless you're careful, it's quite possible to overshoot your target and then you become the target instead of them. The second is that you need to manage maximum speed because your aircraft can literally fall apart if you go too fast. Or you black/red out. Say you successfully complete the dive and are now tailing the enemy aircraft. Once you are on them, you need to stay on them. This is much more difficult than in PS2 again because of flight physics. You need to predict what your opponent is going to attempt to do because your aircraft cannot stop or turn on a dime. Errors are difficult to recover from, and often it is the case that you simply have to disengage because going further would put you in a disadvantageous position. Say you engage the enemy. Well, most aircraft cannon have extremely limited rounds in a belt... a few seconds of firing can exhaust your cannons, meaning that you're out of the fight for 15-30 seconds. Not only that, but simply spraying the enemy with fire can result in your weapon jamming, which is definitely not desirable in a close-range dogfight. Aiming is also more critical, because aircraft have individual parts instead of a giant HP pool. You could try to aim for "center of mass", but that's the strongest part of the airframe. You could try aiming for a wing, which is a much smaller target but can quickly disable the enemy plane. Or you can aim for the enemy pilot to try to "knock them out".

    So in the end, name any flying skill in PS2, and Warthunder probably has a much more demanding version of it. I think the only real skill that PS2 has over Warthunder might be resource management (since in Warthunder you don't have to buy your own aircraft) but that's about it.
    • Awareness- Pilots in Warthunder generally have many more air targets to worry about than in PS2. There are also sources of ground fire as well. Finally in Warthunder pilots actually have timed objectives that they also need to be concerned with.
    • Flying- Just taking into account the actual physics in Warthunder makes it much more skillful than flying in PS2. Not only that, but there are a number of other controls to master, none of which are present in PS2. For example there's no control of elevators, radiators, or even flaps in PS2. Even the landing gear is automatic in PS2, which is a sure sign of dumbing things down.
    • Fighting- Because ammunition is much more limited in Warthunder and targets are smaller, aiming is just more difficult. Not only that, but because aircraft can't instantly turn on a dime to point at whatever target you want to hit, aiming is also much slower. Definitely more difficult than PS2. And that's not even mentioning weapon jams, long reload times, ammunition types, or other intricacies that PS2 completely ignores.
    • Staying Alive- Warthunder aircraft (and pilots) are much more fragile. You're not going to be able to sit there and tank fire like how Liberators can eat tank shells. Losing wing flags or tail elevators can cripple an aircraft. You can experience oil leaks from enemy fire and run out of fuel. You can catch on fire and slowly burn to death (whereas fire in PS2 is a joke). Even out of combat there are plenty of ways to get yourself killed from stressing your airframe, blacking/redding out, running your engine too hot, or simply crashing because pressing the magical "s" button to instantly stop is not an option.
    All in all, I don't know of any pilot in PS2 who could rightly argue that PS2 air combat is more skillful than what you would find in an actual flight combat simulator. I think most PS2 pilots would simply leave it at the opinion that they find PS2's airgame "unique" and "enjoyable", but they'd be laughed at if they thought PS2 flying took more skill than Warthunder. And Warthunder isn't even a "hardcore" flight simulator at that.
    • Up x 3
  13. Yessme

    Czarinov, really, i dunno why we fight here. this People never will take 1 Point, and ever make Hatethreads.
    they Chance Things how they l Need it.
    Look the Host of that thread, how much Points we bring and he just ignored it, because we say the True and he can`t handle it.
    And i Swear, in 1 week we will see the next ESF HATE THREAD....
    OR AA IS UP THREAD, but if a Skyguard have a TTK vs an ESF in 4 sec ............... Jupp we will see it again.



    I really understand, why u get Temp banned. i Thing if i listen more threads like this, i will get banned too.
  14. Jawarisin

    bah, they aren't going to listen to you. Well, not you specifically, but not this forum. Not only that, but you'll never be able to fly either, regardless of mechanics :) I'll let you crash on your own.
  15. Jawarisin


    RadarX is still actively looking at the forum, but he's only looking at reports. So if a post isn't reported, nobody's gonna care.
  16. Kristan

    keep talking boi :D
  17. Stigma

  18. Yessme

    I say it 100 Times, leav that thread and u was going to do it, don`t stop it plz ok? JUST DO IT PLZ!!!!!
    ( u say u leav)


    WHY u still here?.

    Something is really wrong with u......
  19. Ulas

    War Thunder is a semi realistic game. Positioning and maneuvers matter as much as if not more in planetside as well. Talking about diversity of aircraft sure but that has nothing to do with hover. Finally I would love more objectives for aircraft in this game.
  20. z1967

    We are using flak based weapons as a primary source of AA, which were phased out of every modern military by the 60s.

    The Vanguard MBT can barely reach 60kph, slower than the Challenger MBT (a late 20th century MBT) iirc.

    The TR still use gunpowder based weaponry, a technology that would be celebrating its 2000th anniversary around the time the TR was still in power.

    We are still using wheels and tracks in an age where there are hovering tanks.

    The fastest I have ever seen a plane go was a Reaver in a dive with the Racer frame and AB tanks and it only barely got above 400 km/h. That is a speed that even WWII planes and early jets could bypass with ease.

    And many more technological inconsistencies. Even so, the F-35C can barely fly backwards, and there is no way they would use it as a combat maneuver. Not until they can fly backwards at mach 2, which would be a design that even future societies would have a problem tackling effectively.
    • Up x 1