[Vehicle] Vanguard OP

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by SwegJuce, May 16, 2015.

  1. XenoxusPrime

    The vast majority of NC on almost every server cant tell the difference between right and left, it is not the tank at all, more so the dumb players that use it.
  2. Hegeteus


    What's the fun in that? We wouldn't have this incredible thread if he had really tried
  3. ronjahn

    This is your problem. One 2/2 Vanguard > two 1/2 Magriders. This is an even fight that you guys invested to many Nanites into. Fully crewed MBTs are actually fairly balanced in tank gameplay.

    If you are as experienced as you claim then you would know that a Magrider is highly dependent on having a top gunner. And with a top gunner and the skill you claim you possess you wouldn't have as hard a time with them as you seem to be having.

    Or we can just nerf what many people will agree is the worst performing tank.

    One thing I would be okay with is giving the Magrider a higher top speed then the manguard so we can finally put that arguement to bed. This would be best done by simply increasing Magrider top speed, instead of decreasing Vanguards.
  4. omfgweeee

    0/10 next joke please.
    • Up x 1
  5. Tbone

    But, but you can ad-ad the hell out of it like a pro.Practice harder.
  6. The_Blazing

    Dah, here comes the monthly "[MBT name here] is OP" thread.

    In general, the Vanguard is intended to perform better in face-to-face encounters. The Magrider is designed to rely more on terrain and level design... The out-of-base level design being crap (or not), now that's another story...

    The only real problem I can see with the Vanguard is that the shield absorbs rear damage. This turns it from the momentary buff it's supposed to be to a "can't flank me lol" button. That's just plain unfun - the book definition of "bad gameplay mechanic". Making the shield ineffective against rear damage would be enough to stop a lot of the complaints IMO.

    That said, if I could snap my fingers and change something, I'd make the Van shield different entirely. I'd really like to see a physical shield that is attached to the main cannon and covers a great deal of width on the sides of the tank. It could be used in teamplay to cover the advance of friendly troops, and would directly relate the shield's effectiveness to the tanker's situational awareness, in addition to providing a skillbased way to get through the shield (by shooting "gaps" through it, kind of like the AI MANA turret). To compensate it would be indestructible and have a longer uptime.
  7. Mooveoverbrt

    If you're having that much trouble with the 1 vanguard even with two maggies... you're doing something wrong. Vanguard is not OP.

    - Phatalend
    • Up x 2
  8. Mongychops


    The Magrider and the Vanguard primary weapons can't really be compared because the average BR of NC AP users is consistently much lower than the VS.

    http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=avgbr&weapon1=3460&weapon2=3730&weapon3=4008

    It seems the (mean) average NC Vanguard AP driver is 5-8 BRs lower than the average VS FPC Magrider driver. So the average VS tank driver is a more experienced player and has more certs (therefore likely has invested more certs in their Magrider), so it is to be expected they will perform better than average than a AP Vanguard.
  9. Scr1nRusher



    The Stats don't lie.
  10. BloodyG

    Oh look, it's this thread...AGAIN!!!!:D
  11. BlueSkies

    [IMG]
    • Up x 1
  12. SwegJuce

    What... I didn't flee. As I said, If I turn around and flee, Vanguard could like 2 shot me.
  13. 00000000000000000000

    ZoE was OP due to being mechanically overpowered as hell with little to no downside. Not that it matters now as its useless.

    You don't lockdown in southeast indar.
    You don't lockdown if you needed to chase someone.
    You don't lockdown if you are taking heavy fire, getting one extra kill isn't worth losing your tank.

    You do lockdown when you are relatively safe from enemy fire and can benefit from the extra range and reload speed. Theres a lot of places and situations where putting yourself in lockdown is a poor choice.

    Vanguards should move-shoot-move. You hide behind terrain (hill, mountain, building), drive forward, hit your target, then quickly retreat back into cover while you reload. This is just how you tank. You don't sit there and take enemy fire while you reload.

    The magriders ability to dodge is only great at extreme distances (at closer ranges its more of a pro-active trying to make them miss rather than actually dodging their shots). Your armor ALWAYS helps you regardless of range. Having a tank that's more than 50% tougher is hardly a "small benefit" (3% more frontal armor, 7% more side armor, and +2000 health on demand)

    2 shots has both advantages and disadvantages.

    -Less Damage Per shot
    -Need more time to actually put all damage downrange (making move-shoot-move less effective)
    +"Rangefinder" shots, at extreme distances two shots is very helpful
    +Even if you miss you can retain half damage

    Stats themselves may not lie, but using stats in specific ways is akin to lying.

    Yes the stats show your tank is doing "worse." and you have taken that to mean that the tank is piloted by people of the same skill level across all three vehicles and that the vanguard is mechanically worse. But there are other explanations.

    • It could mean those piloting vanguards are worse on average (or that new players, who are worse, are attracted to using the vanguard, thus its average ends up lower) I'm not saying this IS the case its just one thing which would cause those stats.
    • It could mean there are more vanguards on the field than the other factions MBTs. Which means both more hours and less vehicles to kill. Which pushes VKPH down.
    • It could mean your tanks spend more time out of combat (You are slower than prowlers and can't take shortcuts like magriders can) and thus a larger % of your time is spent driving places instead of actually fighting.

    Also with the exception of the KPH on the HE the rest of the stats are super close together and hardly worth mentioning.

    I mean 1-3 extra VKPH on the AP? 0.1-0.5 extra VKPH on the HEAT? There could be a ton of reasons for that tiny of a discrepancy.



    I wish magburner was omnidirectional T.T


    (PS: Vanguard is my favorite Tank, I use HEAT and Halberd)
    • Up x 1
  14. Alarox

    If you're choosing to fight Vanguard's head-on then you will struggle. If you outmaneuver the Vanguard then you'll win easily. It is difficult to lose with 2 FPC Magriders against a single 2/2 Vanguard even in a head-on encounter. I can only conclude that you're being outplayed, either because they were extremely good or because you didn't play to your strengths.

    If you're putting yourself into situations where you will die then you're doing it wrong. If one of you two is dying, then you're doing it wrong. Why engage in situations where you know you will fail? If the Vanguard is sitting there then don't attack him head-on, just wait for him to have to drive away and shoot him in the rear. If he rushes you then just run away before he can catch you. If that isn't possible, then you've put yourself in a terrible position. I'm not saying you need to run away, I'm saying there's a better alternative to silly deaths.

    I don't know the specifics of the situation but there's always a better alternative than dying for nothing.

    People like Calisai and Fleech can take down 2/2 Vanguards solo.
    • Up x 1
  15. SwegJuce

    I don't know where you got 8000hp from but every MBT has 4000 base HP. Mag doesn't have 8000. Only Vanguard has 2000hp extra because of shield. Every tank has the ability to flank, lol, not just Mag.

    Not sure what you mean by "much much slower turning speed". When that VG was turning its hull + turret, I had no way of encircling him with my strafing speed, in fact, his traversal was faster.

    There's a short delay when switching seats, also you have to re-aim every time you switch. Not only that, if you switch to secondary, that leaves your mag totally immobile. Seat switching is not an option.

    I don't think that's accurate at all. It doesn't take 1 minute to kill a tank, you can't base your numbers off of that. I think you need to have a Mag and VG front face each other and trade shots to get the accurate stats for which one does more damage. My prediction is that the VG would win, because of the shorter time interval (not 1 minute, but probably 20 seconds or something to kill a tank) the 0.25s longer reload matters less. Also not only does VG have more dmg reduction, it also has that 2000hp shield, remember?


    I'm pretty sure that after a patch(I don't remember which) a while ago, all tanks have better firing stability. Mag pretty much doesn't have that advantage anymore(unless I remember wrong). Yes, Mag can move over rough terrain but without a turret, it can't flank much better because other tanks could drive around enemy while still pointing their gun at them and firing. Mags strafing speed is far inferior to any forward moving tank.

    Actually, if Mag strafed and bumped into some crate or whatever, it gets completely knocked off target. Also no turret means you can't just turn your turret to recover your aim, You have to get your whole tank away from that obstacle you bumped into to regain your aim. Only being able to fire when the strongest armour is facing the enemy is NOT an advantage, lmao. That means you can't shoot at all unless your tank is facing the right way. Far less versatility, and far less ability to use the terrain cover. Plus if you wanted to, you could have your VG or Prowler's front armour face the enemy at all times when you shoot too.

    So from this we can conclude that you have a completely inaccurate vision of how the Magrider and Vanguard works in isolated tank battles.
    • Up x 1
  16. Liewec123

    yeaaaah, no.
    last time i check the swagrider was preforming best of the 3 on average, just because a chosen few of you decide that you want to act like a vanguard against a vanguard does not mean the swagrider is bad.
    yes if you sit there and trade shots you will lose...

    i've spent 16 hours using magrider, not a massive amount of time but i've killed my fair share of vannies.
    use your mobility!

    a six second shield is just cute when you can dodge bullets ;)
    [IMG]
  17. JohnGalt36

    VS crying OP.
    [IMG]
    • Up x 1
  18. SwegJuce

    As someone said before, you can only dodge at long ranges, however Van shield can be used at any range. Plus, it prevents rear/flank damage as well, making your flanking useless for 6s. Time the Van can use to point his front towards you.

    P.S. it's called shells, not bullets.
  19. JohnGalt36


    Shield does NOT keep you invulnerable for 6 seconds from rear armor attacks. It almost instantly depletes from one AP shell to the rear armor.

    If you put a shell in a Vanguard's rear armor before he sees you, and you don't win, you should probably wear a helmet, like 24/7, IRL.
  20. Viztorgath

    Honestly everyone in that encounter was performing piss poorly but I guess it would be the magrider drivers who were slightly more idiotic yet ultimately victorious? A straight up frontal fight of 2 1/2 magriders vs 1 2/2 vanguard with AP weapons should result in 2 dead magriders. The only reason one of them lived was due to the vanguard splitting fire rather than focusing one down. Intentionally going head to head with vanguards in a magrider without being next to cover is suicidal. Magrider's best and almost only benefit is the maneuverability ... flank them ... get to areas they can't reach ... don't fight fair. I honestly believe the vanguard is the best "tank" out there but it is the special niches for prowler/magrider that result in them performing better(I believe the stats are padded pretty hard by locked down prowlers in ideal situations).
    • Up x 1