Can someone please explain the M18 and Banshee to me? I'm not getting it..

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by TheRunDown, May 1, 2015.

  1. TheRunDown

    Why does the M18 have such terrible stats compared to other Rotaries, and does even less damage at long range than others?

    I'm using the Needler simply because it does more damage, bigger clip and can actually kill other ESFs in a Clip (Like other ESFs can), and it works better at range..

    Is the argument here because it has 1000 RPM? cause when you look at other Rotaries it's not a great advantage, especially with the damage on it, and it's such little numbers between... The Vortek Rotary has 750RPM and the Turbo Lazer has 857RPM.. and both min damage is the same and higher than the max damage of all Mosquito nose guns..

    I'm really trying my best to Enjoy using the Mosquito, but after playing with the Reaver and Scythe, it's so much easier on NC and just as easy on VS. I have noticed there are a lot of Try hards on NC and VS that haven't actually played TR, and think they're greater than the Sun shining on the Green Grass.. I understand why since killing a Mosquito is ridiculously fast and easy..

    What advantage am I missing here? I have Mobility.. which isn't helping since getting hit a few times is the same as me doing three times the hits on the enemy.. I'm also sure it takes longer to enter reverse manuever on a Mossy than it does a Scythe or Reaver.. I just don't get it, am I doing it wrong? Should I be playing the Mosquito differently to other ESFs?


    The other thing is, why has the Banshee had it's TTK comeplete destroyed?
    Before you start comparing Stats on Paper and monthly Kill sheets.. Im talking about Hit and Run TTKs..
    I know the Banshee can take out more targets than a PPA or Air Hamer, over time! but I'm referring to Hit and Runs..

    Both the PPA and Air Hammer can Insta kill 1 or 2 Troops and begone before you can do anything about it.
    The Banshee is lucky to get 1 kill in the same window or time, the Splash damage is almost none existant, it's like using a normal nose gun. AA in this game is mostly insufficient at most times.


    I'm really starting to understand why TR don't have as many ESFs in the air.. especially when the TTKs are so unbalanced and far apart.. I know the Mossy is faster and more Agile, but it sure as hex doesn't feel like it when you get shot down in half the time..


    Also, adding a bit more Red to TRs Nose Gun bullets wouldn't hurt either, I'm finding it difficult to see the Bullet stream on TR.. I'm already slightly colour bind.. and the current colour just disappear a few meters because of the Sky and Bullet colour..
    • Up x 1
  2. DashRendar

    The Banshee is an AI weapon and it has splash damage, so it can't really be compared to the Rotaries as they have very different roles. Seeing as how you mentioned that you already understand that the Banshee is for AI later in the post, I am now confused as to why you are confused about why the Banshee has lower direct hit damage than Rotaries, which leads to further confusion.
    • Up x 2
  3. Tommyp2006

    The first part was about the M18 Rotary. The second half the post was about the banshee separately.
    • Up x 3
  4. SwornJupiter

    Agreed that air power isnt exactly our forte. You've done the right thing sticking with the needler. Reliable, large magazine.
    The mosquito's agility means nothing really. The esfs are on par in that respect. The banshee used to be pretty ridiculous... the good old days, until NC and VS started crying excessively on the forums.
    Although I'd say the NC have the best noseguns. Mustang AH hits hard, pretty much instagibs and is the most versatile of the three, allowing for AI and AA staying power.
    If youre in this game for air, you might want to jump ship.
  5. DashRendar


    My bad, I remembered that two TR noseguns were called M18, but not which.

    TRs noseguns are bland, but mostly balanced. For a while, the M18 was the clear winner of the three faction Rotaries, and since then all that has changed is that it had about 5 rounds removed from a magazine (memory). The Banshee got overnerfed, but a nerf was needed, it was absurd, particularly against MAXes.

    Taking everything as a whole, the current Banshee isn't so bad, it just doesn't have the range that it used to and requires a bit better accuracy. The current Banshee is workable to 150m or so. That paired with a mostly stable craft which seems at home attacking ground targets, or hit and run maneuvers, it's not so bad. Still could use a slight nudge, but far from useless. The AH can oneshot, but with an effective range of 50-75 meters and each shot needing to be clicked individually, it's heavily limited. Pair that with the craft that feels most out of its niche attacking ground targets and it's mostly ok, but a bit lacking in practicality. The PPA is the odd one out. The PPA is basically good to infantry render range, great for clumped infantry or trolling sundies or choke points. Pair that with the fact that the Scythe is the most stable A2G fighter of the three, and the PPA has by FAR the highest uptime of all faction AI noseguns, and something doesn't make sense. Although honorable mention, the PPA does have an achilles heel, it sucks against enemy fighters.

    The Mosquito is bland in the sense that it doesn't have a defined role, but it doesn't have any large downsides, and excels at versatility. Some may find that boring, you may be some.
    • Up x 1
  6. FieldMarshall

    They should stop beating around the bush and just make all factions have 1 NS gun and 1 class/vehicle.
    Seems to be the way they are heading anyway.
    • Up x 1
  7. Pikachu

    I thought people stopped using rotaries at PU2.
  8. Mythologicus

    Because infantry players don't like dying and/or having to look up once in a while and/or actually doing something about the fact that they're getting farmed, so it received a machete instead of a scalpel.

    /truths
    • Up x 1
  9. Vixxing

    Yeah cause getting instagibbed in the back from 100m while fighting other infantry is a heroic act from a noble skyknight on a stupid ground-peasant...
  10. Haquim

    I wish I could downvote....
    Stop spreading such blatant misinformation and lies just because you are incapable - or more propable: unwilling -to to use a darned lock-on launcher.

    If you were instagibbed by a banshee, which has and had a relatively big cone of fire, from 100m you were running around with 100 hp left and got hit by a lucky shot.
    The "instagib" range of the banshee was about 30 metres MAXIMUM, because all your DPS are worth **** when you don't hit your target. Of course the damage output against a single target increases when you get even closer, because the impacts where the splashdamage comes from get closer together - just like the AH, but that one has to come even closer.

    Compare that to the LPPA that can't "instagib" you, but has no bulletdrop which enables it IN FACT to shoot from 200m, has a 70 shot magazine (admittedly when upgraded) and still has 4m splashradius (which, since radius is not really interesting but rather the area it covers, is 16 times bigger than AH and Banshee), and thus all things put together deals almost as much splashdamage as a deployed HE anchor prowler.
    Don't believe me? Do the math yourselves.

    LPPA: 200 RPM * 250 (indirect damage, 4m) = 833.3 splash DPS in 4m
    Prolwer HE[Anchormode]: ((2.5 - 0.5[upgraded reloadspeed])/ 2 [maximum anchor] ) 1.0s reload * 2 shots per salvo + 0.5 s refire time = 1.5 seconds for 2 shots = 1,33 RPM (some people say there is another 0.5 seconds delay before it starts reloading, but I'm not sure how I could check that so I'll leave it out)
    So....: 1,33 RPM * 650 (indirect damage, 5m) = 866,6 splash DPS in 5m.
    [For the sake of completeness: IF there is another 0.5s delay it would be 650 DPS - one shot per second]

    And the AH.... well if you get instagibbed by a flying shotgun at 15m, simply deal with it. Happened to me too, but seriously... you can just shoot a decimator at his face, even if you don't hit, he is gonna jink and mess his attackrun up.
  11. Ulas

    Mosquito is mediocre at every account. I am better with a scythe and probs reaver although I haven't flown reaver for a very long time. But tr having no air superiority is a lie. On cobalt tr has the best pilots.
  12. Vixxing


    Lets not mention the ttk vs Maxxes on 0.8 seconds...
  13. Leftconsin

    Because the Vulcan-H is OP TR is not allowed to complain about anything.


    Apparently.
  14. Haquim

    Not QUITE that fast usually, but yes - if a banshee Mosquito managed to get inside about 20-30m of a burster MAX he could destroy the MAX before the MAX could destroy him.
    The AH still can do that, and in theory the Banshee can too - but if you get THAT close you could just as well run him over :/

    Problem with that is: It only works if the MAX is stupid enough to stand still and facetank you.
    He doesn't have to - his weapons are proximity, and he can easily mess you up by simply pressing F and charging out of your aim.
    I never really understood why it was a problem when a skilled pilot could win over a stupid MAX.

    The problem with the banshee was pretty much that it was almost as good as the AH at the ranges the AH is good at, but could still easily wreck any infantery at twice that range. So yes, it was too good. But it was NOT the "equip to win" all the infantery players made it out to be.

    Now it is barely able to kill something at AH ranges, and has lost its range advantage too.
    Thumgs up for SOE/DGB for their great understanding of basic math, both algebra and geometry.

    I never really thought about the "Skyknights" and the "Ground Peasants" before, but after witnessing the forum wars about this, and the terrible hyperbole from one side....
    Basically I see the whining groundpounders as the fat american lady who transported her hot coffee in her lap instead of her cupholder, and then sued MCDonalds when she spilled the hot coffee over herself when she had to brake.


    Sidenote - in the last part of my calculation the rate of fire of the Prowler HE is of course not 1.33 RpM - that is supposed to be rounds per SECOND or 80 RPM.
  15. Vixxing

    What if its not a Burster max but one defending a point in an infantrybattle? (where 95% of Banshee farming took place) In what way is he stupid when you facerape him with no way to outrun you and no way to outgun you... noble Skyknight!
  16. Haquim

    Well, if you're talking like this.... why not ask the infantery guys that he is gunning down with impunity how they feel about this :D.
  17. Trebb

    Right, because on my TR, it's neat being dead on my AA max before the damage even starts showing on my screen from the AH. It's literally a couple shots and I'm down from full life. Not that it matters, every empire can do the same thing if skilled with Hornets. I've been trying to auraxium those things, and while it's fun for me (assuming no A2A ESFs in the area), it can't be fun for the ground targets.

    As for OPs post, I main TR, but switched to NC for the Free Helmet on Test Server flight test. Huge difference. I killed people in one clip a ton, the bonus to AB speed is awesome, and I swear the reaver sound is bugged a lot, they sneak up on me all the time, and I had no issues sneaking up on people in test. It just felt easier.
  18. Stargazer86

    The M18 Rotary is just bad. Even if you connect with a full clip an enemy ESF isn't going to die to the piddly damage it puts out. Whereas with the NC Vortek, one clip is more than enough to shred an ESF into itty bitty pieces on the first pass. Hell, one of the few weapons I've bought on my NC alt is the Vortek and oh my god is it so much better than our rotary. Fly in close, unload, watch them explode. So very satisfying. The M18 though really needs some work done on it to make it worthwhile to use over the Needler. As it stands, the Needler has better range, better clip size, and better accuracy resulting in far more reliable damage.

    And the Banshee was nerfed into the dirt. Did it need to be toned down? Sure, but not to this extent. It's pretty much useless now.
  19. Haquim

    Just to add a couple numbers to the "Banshee got nerfed to the dirt" part.
    As far as I know they only "tweaked" the damage numbers and explosive radius.
    Banshee had 2m splash with 200 dmg
    Now it has 1m and 150 dmg.
    That means the damage area of the explosive damage was reduced by a whopping 75%. 12.5m² down to 3.1m².
    Add to that the 25% damage reduction and you can basically say that the explosive damage effectiveness got nerfed by a sledgehammer of 81.25%.

    Yup, sounds totally reasonable.
    And because its a pet peeve of mine: LPPA has about 50m² explosive area. (Not as big as it might sound, it is "only" 4m radius)
    • Up x 1
  20. Vixxing

    I bet he dosent go "L2P! it IS a fair fight!" Because he realize he got the superior weapon...