soft nerf to heavies

In all competitive games, the more HPs you have, the easiest your way to victotry will be.
Anybody telling this fact would be wrong will just be ingnoring what 1vs1 is.

A random "noob" or average player ( as i am ) may be defeated by another random noob or another average player. But skilled players will know how to use this HAs Extra HPs and become real overpowered damaging turrets.
Is it good or bad ? It's ok, but i think the game game become a bit unfair. Not because of the skilled players ability ( i have respect for that )...but because of they start the fight with way more HPs than yours.

It means that you'll have to spend more time, more bullets, more time to think about the way how you'll deal with this oppoent. Then you'll be shot in silly ways by the next guy because of reloading / the fact that you had to stay too long at cover / or wtf else.
Time spent, bullets in your mag is all in any FPS.

I'm a average player, and i do notice the fact that i benefit from a "Margin of error" when i play as an HA. Why don't you realize it ?

Maxes ? Maxes are cool "events" for most of times. You know you may die, but they are relativly rare (compared to HAs, even if you can't fully compare them ) and that they'll attract attention of most of your teammates. You can see they on you mini map ,and know they are around. HAs are not highlighted on your minimap. Even if as Maxes do, HAshave more durability than most of classes.

Even if i do not think this may ever happen , why not locking HA class for small/medium fights ? Why not unlocking HAs only for large/zergs fights ? Would make the game of more interest for all other classes players. More "skill activated" gameplay, less " HPs pump activated".

I've never once suggested giving heavy shield to the other classes

When did farming certs enter this equation?
And if you can't find an appropriate weapon in the HA arsenal (Heavy weapons, Long range and CQC LMGs, Shotties, and SMGs) erm... you have problems.

What server do you play on where these are the only two options? Is it the server for the 10 year olds you talk about? Is the average skill level so low on this server? Honestly... pop shield early or never pop it at all... wtf

Your major counterpoint is nitpicking hyberbole, of course not *every* player is going to be. This is why the "Nerf HA" never really gets any traction, because of weak arguments and a fundamental lack of understanding of extremely basic concepts.

The reality is HA's are well balanced when you look at this game as a squad based shooter and no one has ever presented a counter argument to their power versus the ability for just a handful of support being able to keep an entire platoon going. But by all means, keep calling them crutches because in the end, it is whining and thankfully not something that is catered too.

Wasn't much else to work with in original point. Counterpoints when primarily dealing with strawman arguments are just a place to poke fun at people.

Also, I have no illusions about HA getting tweaked. They're not going to do anything to make such a huge part of their playerbase angry. The culture of the game, however, can be changed. PS1 had a personal shield that turned your stamina pool into a health pool. Almost no one used it though because the playerbase viewed anyone using it as a scrub.

Also, currently very amused comparing forum and reddit.

Forum: lots of Nerf HA/MAX (no real talk about redeploy)
Reddit: lots of Nerf Redeploy (no real talk about HA/MAX)

Feels like conversation topics are contagious but only in their own environments.

I say hard nerfs to silly threads. HA is fine. You either solo play or have very bad tactics. This game is very well balenced IMO.

Yes when 1v1's actually happen, the ha becomes a god and the other player moves in slow motion. Its some proper unfair dragon ball z type experience.

And ha takes forever to kill. It takes so many extra bullets and most combat takes more than a few minutes with each encounter. It all happens in a kind of vaccum where things are really slow.......brain numbingly slow and ha auto wins......

Perhaps I extrapolated too far

I am still yet to see anyone post anything sensible to back up claims that AR > LMGs. The worst performing from both weapon types are about the same (1.25-1.3 AK/D), yet the top performing are AR average K/D: 1.7, LMG average K/D: 2.9

That's because those KDRs are influenced by the classes that use the weapons. So you're really comparing [AR + Medic] vs [HA + LMG].

If you look at the pure weapon stats though, and not how they perform in the hands of their respective classes, you'll see that other than mag size, ARs are equal or better than LMGs in every category.

Go here: http://ps2.dynet.com

You'll see that ARs on average have higher ROF and thus faster TTK, lower vertical and horizontal recoil, lower horizontal tolerance, faster recoil recovery (decrease), tighter moving ADS COF, and tighter hipfire COF. So they're more accurate, easier to handle, and can kill faster. LMGs only have larger mags, and the only reason they perform as well as they do compared to ARs is because of the HA Overshield.



That's another reason why some of these HA nerf suggestions are so ludicrous to those who can see how the classes and their weapons are designed, balanced, and interwoven. Without the HA shield, LMGs are crappy weapons compared to ARs. And they've been specifically nerfed - on mulitple occasions - in order to make them that way.

I'm not saying that the HA class does or does not have any balance issues. But it's obvious that most of the posts I've read asking for HA nerfs are made by people who aren't looking at the bigger balance issues.

It would be able to survive a direct shot from an engie's AV turret, a direct hit from a bulldog, a direct hit from a rocket launcher, or a grenade right under your foot, without needing flak armor.
That's a massive advantage in areas of battles where HA is meant to be the suited class.
(The front lines/cap points, as the class has the ability to suppress the enemy with AI and AV firepower and absorb far more explosive damage.)

The extra layer of explosive armor alone is a massive boon.
And while I was fairly sure that the shield slowed for balance toward both infantry and tanks, if it doesn't cause any real issues against armor, the speed reduction can be removed.
(Though I see tankers rightfully being a little upset over that, as the MBT's were already nerfed considerably on range.)

By the way I play for a long time now and heavies were already OP 2 years ago so I don't understand why they didn't got nerfed already.
HA class promotes no-skill and seems designed to give casual players/noobs a chance to kill other players who spent time learning the game.
I personally don't have much problems killing HA because most of them are bad, but when fighting against skilled players playing HA you're ****** since the class has a clear advantage over other ones, 2040HP against bullet weapons shouldn't be a thing, it's a heavy assault not a ******* MAX you're fighting.

They have been nerfed. Repeatedly. The Devs have just gone after their LMGs to tame the class rather than the OverShield.

Heavies are not OP, nor are their guns. i play as Engineer 80% of the time, and i tear them up easy. its all about aim and skill. just use s shotgun like everyone else who has none

Its the purpose of this thread. As are every other 'nerf this' thread.

Uhm... no?

Firstly: No, Heavy isn't my class: https://www.planetside2.com/players/#!/5428010917244237409/classes

Heavies are SUPPOSED to be the best class at dealing and taking damage, they're the heavy assault, all the others revolve around supporting them, so if you prefer another class you're going to have to accept that heavies WILL be more powerful than you in a one-to-one fight, that is the sole reason for their being.

How classes support them:
Infiltrator: Scouts, long range support.
LA: Keep flanks secure and aid the heavies by flanking the enemy.
Medic: keep heavies and others' alive
Engi: Provides heavy defences and ammo when required.

Perfect assault formation:
Key:
HA - heavy
LA - Light
E - Engi
M - Medic
I - infil
MA - Max
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<ENEMY>

...............................MA .......................MA........... MA ........................MA
LA LA I I LA LA ......HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA....... LA LA I I LA LA
LA LA I I LA LA....... HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA....... LA LA I I LA LA
.................................M M M.............. E E E M M M..........E E E .......M M M
.......................................I I I I I I I I I II I I I I I I II

OR something like that
See my point? They are the fighting class, if they weren't flat out more powerful than other class in one-to-one combat there would beno use for them in the game!
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The way to counter of their upfront power is to reduce their versatility (AT and Suppressive power)

You do this by creating another support class, calling, oddly, "support"

These guys are like this:

Primary: Carbine
Secondary: Sidearm
Tool: LMG OR rocket launcher
Gadget: Ammo

LMG: Taken from heavy - changed so it's responds more how they do in BF series, crap when firing from an unsupported position. (bipods *hint hint*)

Rocket launcher: identical only taken from heavy.

Ammo : Engineers are engineers, not ammo bearing slaves!
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Heavy: They get assault rifles instead of LMGS now, and are given some other fancy tool to use instead of rockets, maybe:
- Disposable one-time-use launcher?
- backpack that slowly resupplies your grenades for free?
- Something?