Flight Controls Changes - Need Feedback

My trump card is dead to day after countless hours of training. : /

Edit : these changes are good for beginners, but prevents exotic maneuverability and confined to the classic dog fights, without options of evolution

Ewww, gross. Why would I use Mouse Acceleration on live...?

I think it's my last reaction on this post and maybe on this game :

the global gravity is totally different, no ?

What he is saying is (...as you quoted him):

So use the same settings on PTS for "Use Raw Mouse Input", "Reduce Input Lag" and "Mouse Acceleration" as you do on live...
Can't see how ppl seem to not understand this...
You don't have the "Mouse Acceleration" box ticked on live? Then use the same on PTS! ...jeez...

Alright, I see a lot of people chime in here that are career pilots, and a lot that don't fly very often. Both perspectives have valuable opinions, I just want to note that I consider myself one of the former (and hence one of the people who will gladly pick up pitchforks if you DGB guys mess this up).

Anyway, I had hopped on the PTS a few times before the most recent patch and my opinions at the time echoed that of the majority of pilots here - it sucked, it sucked, it sucked.

But now, after the patch, I can report that flight controls have significantly improved. They are a lot closer to live than they were. This makes me very happy! They aren't perfect though.

What you've got right: Flying by keybinds for roll and pitch. Flying by mouse for roll.

I can't quite put my finger on it but something about pitch (by mouse) is just not quite right. I think it might be something about the acceleration is a bit too quick, or maybe it has too much sort of momentum to it, I'm not sure what it is but it throws off my aim a lot.

Roll (by mouse) feels spot on, just perfect to me.

Then there's yaw (by keybinding obviously). Again, I'm not sure what it is, and it doesn't feel as "off" to me as pitch right now does, but I feel like there's something not quite right there. I noticed it most when I was feathering/tapping the yaw keys when having to do minor adjustments to my yaw- it felt like it was going too far maybe, or too stop/starty instead of smooth.

Sorry I can't be more specific in my feedback. It's really hard to quantify what makes something feel off.

~
BurntScythe

comments about the patch of the day 3/20:

- the yaw speed feels much better, but still not the same of the live server
- the roll speed (by mouse) did not improve at all, you still need a lot of effort with the mouse to rotate the esf completely
- and the pitch (by mouse) appears to be more sensitive, I had to reduce the flight sensitivity to have the same feeling of the live server

this new patch is better .

1 - I can till the soil as before with my wings without taking much damage ( with all the ESF ), i'm relieved .

2 - I have always so much movement restrictions with the pitching ( it's very disturbing )

Concret example : when I statically turn around an another ESF, i can see the limitation of the pitching, it's very .... " restrictif " ? I think it's the good word, but without this change all others will become abusive ...

3 - Why I have the feeling of having a laser saron instead of my Vortek? i have my own idea, we lost 10/20% of gravity .



I think that's all, " jeeeeeez are you here ? " .

Will we EVER get turns on mouse axis? Like an option. Like, EVER?

I think it could be improved a bit over what it is on live, while we are at it. Here I made a little sketch (hand drawn, don't be too harsh ) over how I think the curve looks. Since it is determined by just experimenting in the game, it may not be accurate in the fine details, but the overall picture is right.



The horizontal axis is how fast you move your mouse along an axis (for example pitch), no exact values because it depends on your sensitivity settings. Vertical axis is how fast your aircraft rotates as the result. The little red graph is how I would personally want it to work. Three important areas are marked by numbers:

1. Low mouse movement speed gives very slow rotation. I feel like this is less pronounced in current test version compared to live. I like PTS implementation more here. More linear is better imo. Tank turrets have linear response, while still have inertia and it works just fine.

2. Is max pitch rate, seems to be the same between both atm.

3. This is when you move your mouse faster than required for max pitch rate, which will make you rotate slower instead. Might just be me, but it feels like it is harsher on PTS than live, although I'm not fully sure. However, I don't understand why this has to be in the game in the first place! It is nothing but an annoying feature that has no purpose, makes it more difficult for new players for no good reason and forces you to use buttons for pitch up and down for big movements. Instead it should be like it is on the little red graph, no negative acceleration once you hit max rate.

This and also mouse movement still overrides any pitch up or down key. This should be fixed, as it makes some maneuvers unnecessarily complicated. For example pitching down with a key while rolling with mouse screws up pitch down rate if you move the mouse even slightly in the vertical axis (which you will do, getting strictly horizontal movement without one pixel up for down is nearly impossible).

Tested new patch just now with mosquito. Reset sensitivity settings to match Live.

Roll and pitch seem very responsive, tipping the gun at ground targets is smoother than on live.

Yaw seemed a little slower on Racer chassis than I'm used to on Live, but it's hard to compare side-by-side exactlly. Will do more testing.

One thing I did notice is that the Racer chassis seems to have a higher pitch rate than the Dogfight chassis. I have to maneuver the mouse more to get the same amount of pitch over long maneuvers. This seems backwards to me...

Lastly:

Why did you remove the mouselook maneuvering from this patch? It was the thing I liked most. I am sad.

Did some more testing, copied settings via the user settings .XML from Live to make sure they were consistent. Noticed that my right yaw key seemed to have un-mapped itself (I had it remapped to F). Remapped key and no problems.

Rapid-tapping yaw allows very fine adjustments just like on Live. Pitch control seems a tad more responsive on Test than on Live.

Doing very unscientific turn tests in warpgate, scythe frames seemed to have no effect on upward pitch but Racer frame on Mosquito still seems to pitch up a bit faster than Dogfight. It might just be harder for me to keep the dogfight mosquito frame stable during the tests.

Dogfight in Scythe using dogfight chassis seemed to be very similar to Live with this latest patch. Noticed no weirdness.

I didnt have time to play on live nor on pts for almost a week but i really enjoyed the pts last weekend. I really like the new movements. it seems more easy to aim and control the aircrafts. I am a total noob when we talk about flying (my stats can show that) but somehow i maneged to get a few esf kills. keep up the good work

Flew all 3 esf's after 3/20 update... feels better, much better than first iteration... especially on Reaver, which was kinda out of whack. One thing I kinda felt on Mossie, after coming to a hover, with jets pointed down, after any maneuver it seemed/felt like when I finished any maneuver w/jets in down position, I would try and move while reloading, but even when small maneuver completed, seemed pushed forward when completed...even w/nose up and never going forward my jets would just fold to horizontal or 45deg position and push me forward....could have been racer frame, but still somehow felt different, wish experienced mossie pilots would test. All in all, I would have to play side by side now, at least on reaver, to tell any difference. If you like to fly in this game, it's not uncommon to fly all 3 factions, multiple aircraft, multiple frames...but u usually don't get as good with one aircraft as the guy that has used exactly the same craft/frame for months in the pilot seat, like the awesome Reaver vid...;p

I'm not the best pilot, but to me it's obvious the controls feel very sluggish compared to the live server, even with sensitivity cranked all the way up. I'm unable to perform many of the manoeuvres that I can on the live servers successfully, especially when it comes to hard banking, attitude adjustment or other forms rapid reaction. I can see how it might be easier for new players, but it hamstrings anyone expecting to perform any sort of dogfighting or fast movement in the air. Honestly, I don't understand why you can't just leave the mouse/keyboard model alone.

Incidentally, I run a small air wing for Ghosts of the Revolution (GOTR) on Emerald. I have had my best pilots come to me and say that if the air controls currently on PTS make it to live in their current state, they will stop flying, full stop. It will effectively mean the end of our air division. This makes me tear my hair out, as these people are both friends and good gamers, who make dealing with the bugs and unfinished features (not to mention the state of the air game at this point) worthwhile. They're ready to hit the Eject button.

If what you say above from the original post is the goal, it's not been achieved.

Seriously, I just try again the pts for an hour on all the ESF, I wanted to throw my computer out the window., I hope these changes will never be effective, because I would in the moment and i don't lie, believe me .

Flew on test, flew on live, then test again. Mouse and mapped roll L/R keys are again fighting for control.

There's something I can't put my finger on, maybe more than one thing, that just adds up to less responsive and different. All settings identical.. I honestly wish you did not have to change anything for PC flight controls, they are about perfect on live. Will have to test Scythe more, but Reaver and Mossie stopping/hover/then moving forward feel different. Drives me nuts thinking of..is it 2% faster roll speed plus 5% faster pitch speed + 7% front thrust, time for jets to face down+etc,,,different on each esf and then each airframe to just make the same as it is now. Wish was just a universal constant to be applied to "roll speed" for example, but seems more complicated.

Posted in the old thread by mistake. Here's my feedback:

Popped on test the last few nights to check out the new flight mechanics. I use a combination of mouse and key binds to fly. Key binds for yaw and pitch. Mouse for roll and more precise pitch adjustments. The first thing I noticed is the lag when hitting a key bind compared to live. On live, you're straight to 100% pitch/yaw as soon as the key is pressed. On test, there's a lag between key press and 100% pitch/yaw that makes flight feel mushy and sluggish. I found that if I started the pitch adjustment with the mouse and then held the key bind, it stayed at 100%, but that's a pretty clunky way to have to pull quick maneuvers.

More changes incoming. Pitch issues should be worked out and roll and yaw should feel improved, especially on Liberators and Galaxies.

OK, after the last patch the ESF controls look much better. The only big issue that still bother me is the roll speed. IMO the default roll speed for the ESF should be the roll speed that you has when you are using the dogfight airframe in the test server.

Luke,

No offense, but whats the point of tweaking the controls when the bare basic controller support is still rubbish and the flight mechanic's for Joysticks are no where near what they used to be and are not equal to the mouse.

I can confirm all my joysticks work in game. When I've only one connected at the time. When multiple controllers are connected, the game is picking the joysticks it wants to use and not the ones I really want to use.

Before the PS4 code update all detected controllers could be mapped in game, now there seems to be a limit of only two and some controllers can't be combined with one another anymore.

https://soeissuetracker.com/browse/PS-575

As for flight mechanics, flying with controller is still seriously handicapped because you can't reverse direction of movement as fast as you can with the mouse.

https://soeissuetracker.com/browse/PS-726