Liberator is gamebreakingly op

Except for the part where it wasn't nerfed for a long time and was incredibly powerful, then got a buff for no reason at all making it even more OP than it already was. Then it finally got a Nerf to put it more in it's place, and it is, if it wasn't for the TankBuster's capability to almost OHK MBT's if they are 100%.

I mean come on! The Liberator used to sport the Dalton, which basically fired C4 rounds to the ground. You didn't have to hit tanks or infantry groups, you just had to fire near them. The TankBuster could OHK MBT's from behind and still have ammo to spare for great damage against another one, and could basically 2-clip MBT's from the front. It took 3+ hits to down one with AP canons and rockets/missiles, and 3 and-a-half Skyguard clip in vanilla state without composite armor. The Dalton shell was so big that it almost functioned as a Flak shell against anything, ground or air. The Zepher was powerful enough to lay waste to tanks, one-clipping Lightnings or putting them in a burning state, with incredibly high reload speeds etc.

Even when they did nerf the Liberator, the whole thing became much more balanced... if it wasn't for the TankBuster. It's ability to take on Skyguards in 1v1's without losing by simply firing this into the certed front armor of a Lightning makes it almost impossible for a dedicated AA unit to win, and this is when the Lib doesn't sport Composite Armor either that unbalances it completely. And if that's not bad enough it can have someone in the belly-canon as well throwing down incredible punishment. At least the belly-canons were nerfed to a nice, balanced state if it hadn't been for the TankBuster up front eclipsing it's capabilities.

Every AA is highly ineffective, that's one of the main reasons why the liberator is OP.
I recently came back to the game with an open mind, tried some AA and found them extremely inaccurate.
Especially the base turrets are utterly useless.

i don't even really want to talk to you man. but i will say this. it's not a OHK with the tankbuster, its a 42-44 hit kill. i'm not a math genius or statisticmagician or whatever like you, but i think there's a difference.

the other thing i guess i should point out is that when they "did nerf the Liberator" they buffed Dalton direct damage. so we can't splash infantry to death anymore, but honestly who can? a few things, sure, but in most cases not as well as they used to.

otherwise you're just basically making my point that the Lib has been nerfed a lot since launch. just about every associated system has seen nerfs, except the racer frame which no one uses. even the NAR was nerfed. not even the harasser has had so many direct and indirect changes, although it and the ZOE were cut down really hard in one fell blow. so uh, thanks, i guess, for making my point there.

The only case you are making here is that the Stock Lib needs a buff, not that the Lib can keep it's power after it's certed.

Imagine if I'm capable of buying a machine gun for 2000 certs. This LMG sports a high damage model but with a lower damage model ROF and recoil, along with high accuracy, good hipfire and 0,75 ADS modifier. I hope you realize that this is a completely OP weapon. The fact that I payed twice as much (or 5 times as much) doesn't matter. It's not about the cost, but how much it performs after you certed into it.

Another example: For 5000 certs I can buy a MAX upgrade. If I use this MAX upgrade I need to pay 750 resources for it. But in return I get to move and sprint as fast as normal soldiers and I get a regenerative shield that adds 50% to my health, just for grabs you could even throw in to get a Jumpjet instead of a shield if you want. The resource cost stops mattering as this type of MAX would be widely OP and survive long enough to deal much more damage than you bought it for as well as get your resources back by the time it dies.

Certs are not part of the balance. Uncerted weapons need to have a semblance of balance between them, sure, but to compare uncerted weapons and tanks against the certed grounds of Planetside 2... is simply unfair. No one is going to believe that an uncerted Prowler will win any battle unless he's with a group. But then, why isn't your uncerted Lib with a group? Hey! An uncerted Lib still sports wonderful power, you said it yourself a shredder/drake Lib still wields a lot of power, in a group it can use that power just as an uncerted MBT can use it's power, but only real well in a group.

Also, if you talk about uncerted weapons the Lib stands out as one of the most powerful units to be uncerted. Just look at it this way: Uncerted MBT, Sunderer Harasser... all they got for AA are Basilisks, while the Lib has the more powerful Drake, Vector and the powerful Shredder at it's disposal to deal with them and win the battle. The Lightning doesn't really even have AA in the Viper, and infantry has only the Heavy who can fire dumb rockets at you, which even in a stock Lib are evadable.
In the meantime, Ground forces need to fear just about everything if they are uncerted. Even a stock Drake Galaxy is dangerous against them, or a Stock Valkyrie (yeah I said it). So the stock Liberator only really has to fear being plinked to death by tank columns with Basilisks, or of other Libs and aircraft, and of the aircraft only the ESF has a real chance of winning against the incredible power the Lib has in the Shredder.

Do you want to start talking about certed Libs? Because it is inescapable that certed Libs are the most powerful weapons in the game. Remember my analogy of a 2000 cert weapon? It doesn't matter what certs you put into it, it matters that the weapon is unbalanced compared to other vehicles. Certs are just a temporary barrier, but once payed you can use it freely and without mercy (except for TR when using a Mercy)

Seeing a liberator kill something or getting killed by one is a rare event that makes me think "wow" evertime it happens. I dont inow what game you people arw playying where liberators managw to do things. Flash kills more things than liberator it seems.

hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa

No, there are tons of weapons that have had buffs and nerfs over and over again, Striker anyone? But you only see the two or three nerfs the Liberator got. and unlike other weapons, it has never been nerfed into the ground. That's what you also fail to see: even if a weapon was nerfed thousand times, if it was still OP every time and needed another nerf to get closer to balance, it doesn't make the weapon bad simply because it was nerfed a thousand times

I don't see how I made your point, only if you believe wrongly that the Lib is a weak little thing does this prove anything. But hey! the Lib is still one of the most maneuverable, fast and powerful weapons in the game!

Also, how about the LA?
Started out with adrenalin pump, smoke grenades and Flash grenades to help it. Flash grenades were nerfed, smoke grenades and adrenalin pump were given to other classes, Smoke grenades have become completely avoidable by changing the .ini files as well as lower graphics settings. The Spitfire is just one of the many indirect nerfs the LA has gotten as it directly holds back flanking attacks. C4 attacks, one of the few things the LA is regularly used for, will also get a nerf.

Also, let's look at NAR for instance: 6% health regeneration every 5 seconds, against 6,25% of the MBT's! Oh noes! 0,25% less regeneration! The Lib also got 20% more health (5000 Lib, 4000 Vanguard) so I get more health back total anyway, and the Lib can avoid much more fire than an MBT etc.
again, just because it was nerfed doesn't mean it UP or bad, it was just put back in it's place. Some things were overnerfed, sure, but the Liberator has never, ever, been one of them.

How is an AFK lib destroying your tank?

Oh, and next time, try hitting with the flak. It takes less than 150 hits to kill a lib.

You be lyin', bro. You and your 41 kills in a liberator, in 4 hours in one, means you don't have the experience to know what you are talking about.

funny, I came back after a year off. Base turrets are stupid OP. Stop shooting stuff 800m away. What, there's nothing closer? It's because base turrets rip face off for anything closer.

Easiest certs in the game solo is doing Anti-Air. Why all the lyin'? Why all the butt hurt?

Yep, that man got it right. Plenty of G2A going around as lock-on launchers alone, but nobody uses it. I use my lockon to great effect when they start annoying me and I don't see a problem.
Imo, if getting killed by aircraft is more fun than defending against them - then aircraft clearly is not annoying enough.

Well, sadly that kinda depends on the Lib. Those with the maneuverability airframe that fly at you trying to tankbust you are surprisingly hard to take down. You're busy all the time evading tankbuster shots, dalton shells and getting simply rammed out of the rair, so you don't that much damage and it drags on - and the dalton gunner has to get lucky only once....

O M G

Lol, People wonder why an Aircraft is more mobility than an Flash, and makes more DMG than C4 :/

WTF is wrong with u guys???
I Thing People, wo ask this Really should Play BABY or Mario

u r wrong in this game,


Close this Thread.

Nerf Ground and Buff Air.....

We just need a psudo artillery unit, something you can adjust both the angle and power on, up to an 89° angle. 'Designed' to take out entrenched units VIA lobbed shots (with the help of a spotter, to tell you how much you're off by, but not required). Or as it would really be used, an impractical, but effective, anti lib/galaxy cannon... something you can't practically use against ESF because of a slow turret speed (not slow max shot speed, would take about 12 seconds to adjust the turret 360° around it's base), but is an effective deterrent against lumbering giants.

I engage them every now and then, the real problem is that they gave the tail gun WAY more of an angle than it had before, makes it almost impossible to engage them with an ESF once someone hopes in the rear AA turret.

That said, there is a risky maneuver I learned that works decently enough. When the pilot faces towards you (I've only tried this with hover frame BTW, space bar is used for the entirety of the maneuver), roll to an almost fully horozontal position, angling your craft to almost graze the side of the lib, and boost towards it. Just as you're coming up to the side of the lib, roll your craft almost fully upside down, and pull the nose down as hard as you freaking can, half way through (when you're just past looking straight up) briefly fire your boosters again. With any luck, you'll be above and behind the lib; use rolling maneuvers and your booster to keep yourself there while you chip away at it.

If you can kill any aircraft at all with the Vektor and no airframe, I will quit piloting.
An uncerted Liberator is sluggish. It can't turn. It can't evade. It can't pitch, it can't roll. It also can't make a high-speed escape, because it lacks afterburners. Besides the Vektor, weapons are practically irrelevant if the Liberator can't do anything if it finds itself in a bad position (which since it's so damn massive, it almost always is). Basilisks, it has to be said, also rip large air targets a new one especially under focus fire.

Also, arguing about uncerted vehicles is a hilarious subject because realistically the only people who are going to be pulling completely uncerted vehicles for any length of time are people who have literally just started playing the game - I highly doubt that they're going to be super MLG Liberator pilots and gunners, somehow.

On the actual topic at hand, though: It is undeniable that Liberators are exceptionally powerful when fully-certed. But the problem is in using that power. It has been stated previously in this very thread that Liberators are unable to contribute much more to a large fight than simply picking off stragglers and preventing flanking attempts. They can try tangling with ESFs and other Libs, sure, but they'll get sent flying back to friendly territory if the ESFs know what they're doing. There is very little, if anything, that a Liberator can contribute to a fight without being ridiculously sneaky, and even then they can expect the majority of their attacks to be suicide runs (either due to massive return fire, or colliding with an obstacle).

Whatever you're smoking...nevermind, I don't want it.

flash is more worthless stock

I wasn't talking about a solo Vector Lib, but a fully-crewed uncerted Lib. The Shredder+Drake can dish out tremendous damage against anything, including other Liberators and Galaxies.

How is it going to find itself in a bad position? Against ESF, I can understand, but against Galaxies? Valkyries?

everything gets a ton of damage under focus fire of Basilisks. In fact, almost any weapon deals incredible damage if it's focused fire against something it can damage. Imagine 5 uncerted Sunderers with the Basilisks manned, but they go up against 5 fully crewed uncerted Liberators. The Liberators would win. It's quite unfair to say "but under focus fire they lose", you are already assuming they go solo against a group, why the hell would you do that?

Exactly my point. Obstruction made a case for uncerted Liberators and tried to make the Liberators look underpowered because their uncerted variants are bad against the certed game-world of Planetside 2. However, every uncerted vehicle has the same problem and I tried to show that with my post, to prove that arguing about uncerted vehicles makes no sense and doesn't matter to the matter at hand.

Not exactly true, this is a whole different problem entirely and that's "Flak in groups is the biggest force-multiplier in the game". Flak itself needs a whole change to make the game fun and engaging for both the aircraft players as well as the flak users. But in any battle where flak is in little supply (which is a lot more battles than the aircraft players can see), the Liberator is an almost unstoppable power... if it wasn't for ESF being able to engage them pretty effectively. But is that what you should rely on? Just aircraft? It shouldn't matter what you take, you should have some power against anything. The only thing that a low-power weapon is viable is on infantry, because there's so many of them and they are free. But on tanks you should be able to go for complete AA loadouts, or complete AV or AI loadouts, and be effective. That the game developers want to create one option that's superior to all others is OK, but to make it completely impossible to use other loadouts by simply not adding them (MBT AA primary for instance) or making them so weak that they can only scare them away unless you focus fire is simply a detriment to the game.

I dont even use it and i want to see it put back to the way it was, when the forums were crying about it. Buff the Libs and cut the nanite cost of ESFs in half. Get people flying again. Havent pulled a Skyguard in about 6 months now. No need for it.

wow, this is childish as well as inappropriate. need i say more?

as for libs, yes OP, should be nerfed... but fun to kill with rockets... love getting lib kills with my HA.

what i always thought would be fun would be to use the planetside 2 vehicle mechanics as a sort of MOBA, where all the ground forces are like creep waves and the bases and jungle are a little better designed and more regularly spaced. then of course if you didn't have to consider all that balance for individual infantry you could open up a lot more power in the A2G and G2A interactions. i don't think there should be champions, exactly, but i think just choosing a certain tree for unit progression and maybe being able to swap loadouts when you back would give it enough variety.

You did list the Vektor as one of its 'more powerful' stock weapons.

Not so much Galaxies, but Valkyries and almost everything that can return fire on the ground (which is the vast majority of ground vehicles since they're packing Basilisks). As for going solo against a group, this is almost impossible to avoid when the Liberator can be shot from more than a kilometre away and considering how rare it is for a faction to field more than two Liberators in any fight at any given time.

I won't argue with this, but as I stated in my original post in this thread (post #2 overall, in fact) Liberators are magnets for tank shells. Trying to get at an altitude to hit anything that isn't a deployed Sunderer is very difficult when you're being pelted with 150mm AP shells. That's the thing, I suppose. Tanks themselves can be a viable counter, but only if the Liberator is otherwise engaged. It certainly isn't reliable, but it's an option and it hurts to be on the receiving end of it.

As is a stock Harasser.

And a stock Valk.

I would even argue that a stock lib is more effective than a stock Vanguard.

While I don't even think there is a huge imbalance in Libs versus ground, this is just a poor argument being used by someone who seems to main Lib piloting. There's nothing wrong with that, but it certainly doesn't make a stock lib more useless than a variety of other vehicles.

The only thing I would like to see changed is the fact that Libs can easily face roll Skyguards which are intended as a counter to them. If a Skyguard equipped Lightning's resistance to Lib weapons could be increased, that would be great.

Either way I hardly ever get killed by Libs in my tank and I think the last time a Lib killed me as an infantry was in late 2013.

'more powerful than Drakes/Basilisks' in the context.

Why are we discussing this? I thought we agreed that this was mute?
Also, if we are talking about stock-weapons, the fact that few people field Liberators doesn't matter, as almost no one uses basilisks anyway. It's mightily tough to find people who want to gun one, and actually stay in it for longer than a convenient opportunity allowed. But that wouldn't be the case in a stock-only Planetside, but in that case stock Lib's might be pulled much more as well.

It's.. what? How can you have difficulty avoiding the elevation of MBT's and Lightnings? If you stick around in an area, sure there will be an MBT using a rock to boost his elevation, at which point you can attack from the other side where he has a much lower elevation now. MBT's firing in the sky are opportunity things, not dedicated AA. Liberators are relatively easy to hit, and one of the few drawbacks of the TankBuster is that you lose altitude fast when doing strafing runs, making you somewhat vulnerable if you are greedy. Otherwise, hover above them while your belly- and tail-cannon and the jobs done easily in many cases. Keep in mind that the belly-canons are equally capable of killing a Skyguard before the Skyguard kills you.