[Suggestion] The TR HA does not have the best LMG in any catagory...

So why not give us the best performing mid-ranged LMG? The VS has the best CQC LMG (Orion), and the NC has best everything else (EM6, Godsaw). The TR does not currently have a decently performing mid-ranged LMG. The Rhino and Bull are just downgrades to the NS-15m. So why not revamp the Rhino or Bull to be better than the EM6? It doesn't even necessarily need to be TORQ styled. Just a massive buff will do.

Thoughts?

The ideal is that no faction has the best gun in any category, given that the devs have gone with a highly symmetrical balance scheme. Just because you think the other factions have better guns than you (even if you're right) doesn't mean the devs should or will deliberately give you an overpowered gun.

I do think TR deserves a TORQ-like LMG for the sake of faction flavor and variety, though. TR heavies are lacking in dakka.

The faction trait business for 3 factions is pretty dubious at the best of times. The NC and VS take the opposite site of the spectrum when it comes to weapon styles (one does more damage at cost of ROF and accuracy whilst the other has accuracy and speed respectively).

The Tr are left with a slightly lackluster trait of having deeper pockets so they can throw bullets quickly and in vast quantities. But sod convention, give me an LMG that's accurate, flexible and has low bloom. I suspect that the Bull/msr-w/rhino fits the bill for most of the things but i would like one thats an LMG on steroids. Or one that gives us the 0.75 advantage.

I rather enjoy the T9 Carv its like the Orion with a bigger clip instead of the .75 ads. I would totally take that trade. Orion burns through its clip to damn fast, no real ability to suppress a target.

suppressing is pretty overrated anyways, all the good players use battle hardened so they can land headshots even when getting hit

Ever heard of the TMG-50?
It is a solid weapon, I'd argue easily the equal of the Gauss Saw S for example..
and it is a mid-range weapon.

The EM6 has 600 rpm, but 1.8 fsrm, lower muzzle velocity, and no advanced forward grip.

(ahem.. I still think Rhino/Bull could use a buff.. actually, pretty much all 652 rpm, 143 dmg weapons. And I don't really mean RoF necessarily; I'd consider accuracy first)

I just ask myself: HOW can you say that EM6 and GOD SAW are "best" in anything? I'd trade them both for TR's stock LMG. Can you please use those "best" LMGs and then link a video or some stats from you using those and some compareable stuff with TR equipment?

Best CQC LMG: MCG/JackHammer/Anchor/?Orion?
Best midrange LMG: Anchor/GD-22S
Best LR LMG: Gauss SAW???

I always found the MSW-R was pretty boss in mid range for HAs.

I've used 5/6 TR LMGs (haven't used MSW-R), and I still find that we don't have any bests in category. All factions have matched, or alike LMGs, eg. Orion - T9 Carv - Saw, so if one faction does have it, no one is far off from its abilities. The best close-quarters LMG is the Orion, as has been said. But the T9 Carv is still a great option, and the Guass Saw is only 0.02 seconds slower in TTK than T9 Carv. And in return, our T9 Carv has a much larger clip than the Orion. The Guass Saw also has 100 bullets a clip, nut also fires slower, so they reload less than the TR. The Carv-S is much like the original Carv, with slightly higher recoil, which is countered by a comensator, and a slower RPM, but you can make up for that at close range with Soft Point ammo.

Best Mid-Range LMG is difficult, because that's where LMGs were designed, short-mid range. I find the Bull and Rhino stay amazingly accurate for long amounts of time and make for easy headshots even at a range, but the Rhino's TTK is too long to be able to short range effectively. The TMG-50 can be used, but its COF increases very fast, requiring you to use burst control, and a fair bit, but once you learn to time your burst with its great first shot recoil, you can burst whilst keeping your cross-hairs on your opponents head the entire time. The Carv series can be used at mid range, but its a bit more uncontrollable, so you sacrifice headshots. I don't know about other faction LMGs at this range, seeing as I encounter a lot of different LMGs at this range. The Anchor seems to give me problems, and that's probably because of it's great handling and decent damage. The Orion feels like it drops off a bit here as well.

Long range is a bit different. The Rhino can still be used, but the Bull will run out of ammo very quickly at that range. The TMG 50 also works, using lots of burst control, I even use the burst firing option, to land large amounts of shots and miss less, even if I'm sacrificing a bit of time. The burst control gives us an edge over other factions.

So even if we don't have the best LMG for certain situations, we can still fill all the boots, and do it well. The only thing I find odd is that the VS have such smaller clips than both the TR (so it should be) and NC (why do they have so many bullets?). But don't feel bad about us not having the best LMG for a situation, think of us more of the jack of all trades.

Carv is a pretty good all round lmg, nice recoil pattern and good clip size.

Probably not worth the trade of .75x ads for the extra mag size, but recoil has always felt nicer on the carv than orion for me.

The TR have the best hipfiring LMG with the MSW-R when equipped w/ ALS + SPA. That's not saying too much thou since at that range (0-15m) it's overshadowed by shotguns and at least a couple of the SMGs.

if TR get a torq style LMG the issue with be the dps.
Every player I speak to about the torq agrees its a nice weapon to use and is good. but it lacks dps for a CQC gun. I think it would be better with a slightly higher ROF.

Maybe the same as the armistice. That would be nice

https://ps2model-axiom.rhcloud.com/#sttk/sh25-10-10/la/1/24/7254/22
you can see that the T9 Carv and the MSW-R have the same TTK as the Orion. the MSW-R only costs 100certs and is a clone of the orion. it has a smaller cone of fire than the orion and thats much more worth than a 0,75 movement multiplier because its not really harder to hit someone moving a little faster, especially a heavy with activated overshield (so 25% slower).


https://ps2model-axiom.rhcloud.com/#sttk/sh25-10-10/la/1/16/17/3
And TR has the best default carbine: fastest TTK and highest damage per Mag. NC has nearly the same TTK as the Vanu carbine but higher damage per mag.

So vanu has the weakest Carbine.
NC has a ****** LMG. its strong as hell but you need controll your trigger finger a lot more than vanu or TR and it has the slowest TTK.

The only weapon TR is alowed to whine about is the fracture because its the most useless long range AV weapon from all 3 factions.
I play all 3 factions and while its impossible to not hit the target with ravens or vortex the fractures are crap.

You are drastically underestimating how good .75 ADS is; There is a reason the Orion and Beetlejuice are so popular. Furthermore, every VS with the name Plastikfrosch has under 50 kills with the Orion, and under 150 kills with any weapon that has .75 ADS. I don't understand why people who have never used a weapon or have limited experience with a certain stat (IE .75 ADS) feel that they are right about how important it is.

Not to say that guns without .75 ADS are awful, nor do the TR have the worst LMGs. The CARV and MSW-R are very good weapons, with the MSW-R being the bigger cousin of the Medic T1 Cycler (Fast and Accurate) the CARV is similar to the Gauss Saw in that you have to learn to use it properly before it truly shines, after 2897 kills with it I can be accurate with it at all ranges.

Oh really? What about the NS-15. You do realize it has a .75 ADS as well right? Yet despite being more accurate than the Orion its much less used. You know why? Because .75 ADS is overrated and accuracy is something you can only take advantage of if you have some skill in aiming. Its a weapon advantage that can be overcome with skill on top of that. Skill cannot directly overcome damage, rof, magazine size but it can allow you to aim and lead targets better, rendering 0.75 ADS ineffective. Its basically really good against bad players, almost meaningless against top tier players.

MSW-R is the best CQC LMG:
-It has the best TTK (tied with Orion and Carv)
-It has the best hip fire with ALS (no Orion here)
-It has SPA (no Orion here)
These are the main traits of a CQC gun (I am talking 0-20 meters)
And I you think 0.75 is a God trait than shove it up your Nanite Mesh Generator.

You're going to inherently miss more shots at CQC against an ADS'ing Orion user. The MSW competes very well with the Orion but to be the 'best' you have to be outside of max damage range for Orion and within SPA range, that is a fairly small engagement range TBH. Still, doable, as MSW-R heavy one should try to keep some distance between them and the Orion heavies so that they're doing less damage than you are

I don't get the point of some of these posts, because the guns that "work "work due to the same characteristics. I've been horsing around with LMG and the guns that do best are, the orion for Vanu, and I'm lacking experience with their longer range guns but I think it was the SVA88 and it did well, the GD-22s for NC, and the Carv stock gun for TR.
Out of all of those, if I had to pick one gun that I can use barring others it would be the Carv.
What seemingly makes for a beautiful all-round gun is a predictable/controllable first and second shot recoil for medium ranged combat, a nice clip size or good reload speed for large scale fights on busy servers like mine (Miller).
Why talk about the all-rounders so much. Well the more specialized guns by and large turn into garbage quick imho, every faction has a battle-rifle, shotguns and SMG's and under most circumstances the more you use those, the more you should be playing another class for optimal results.

Out of all guns the most dramatically strong in my hands were nr.1 The Orion, which also performed like garbage at the longer end of medium ranged combat. 2.The carv does everything and not mediocre but well. 3rd. The gd-22s, might be bias as I primarily NC but it does everything well like the carv but with a smaller clip which isn't a bad trade off just more likely to be less optimal imho and I'm so glad it didn't take SOE any longer to normalize flinch from enemy fire. That was madness before combined with hit detection bias towards faster firing guns.

Hearing about some of the dreadfully slow firing NC guns is odd.

"Best CQC LMG: MCG/JackHammer/Anchor/?Orion?
Best midrange LMG: Anchor/GD-22S
Best LR LMG: Gauss SAW???"
I'm sorry but that is FUBAR. Gauss saw, please get over this gun. Yes it is bigger, it does more damage per bullet. And at the end of the day it is worthless at anything but the short end of medium range or close but not too close, ending up to be a poor functioning Anchor. And the Anchor too fails hard at anything past the beginning of medium range, functioning like an Orion with complications that at certain ranges will have a chance to kick into a headshot if you know where to shoot first, (P.S.overlooked advantage would be the higher amount of kills per magazine).The high kick guns would be what they are advertised if their first shot recoil and cross hair reset wasn't so overkill cutting down TTK drastically in medium ranged fights, but more importantly completely over-inflating the value of cover due to cross-hair relocation, and leading shots into a properly moving foe will make you ctrl+alt+delete.

Well, I did a test of the guns again since I hadn't used all in a while. But the changes to weapons of the last couple of patches did make a difference. TR guns still seem balanced but they indeed have less variety then the others. And the anchor a little less punishing at range.