[Vehicle] [PTS] *New Heat Saron HRB vs Live Saron HRB* (TTK Test, deep analysis, feedback)- Heat Saron worse!

You know what I'd really like to see?

Keep going with the current PTS Saron changes, and double down on that direction.

Remove bullet drop from main magrider guns, and give them unlimited ammo with a slightly lower DPS and a higher velocity.

Make magriders even worse at close encounters (without the element of surprise), but make them THE long distance, sustainable, strafing armor-breakers that magburn away to keep that distance, that it seems they always should have been. While we're at it, make them the fastest moving at default and at maximum racer chassis of MBTs, so they can do some limited surprise hit and run maneuvers in closer fights if they absolutely must close the distance.

Now that would be unique and interesting.

It would also be nerfed to oblivion. The Magriders during launch were much much less than what you describe and still dominant. It took more than a year to revert the majority of the nerfs from that era.

Well it's obvious even to someone like me who hasn't been around since launch, or even half that long, that the magriders were built to take advantage of longer distance encounters with their strafing and general maneuverability, yet they seem to be the worst at landing longer distance shots with their main cannon out of all the MBTs.

Anyway, I did only say that I liked the idea, not that it was a serious suggestion.

Yea, Beta Magriders were beasts. Able to climb hills, stay on hillsides, shoot accurately, had a single shot laser accurate secondary that had great synergy with the strafe pop-and-shoot technique while also being albe to snipe from long ranges, while the Mag itself could dodge incoming rounds pretty well and use cover fully to its advantage.

Thus it was nerfed into the ground, pretty much every statistic of the Mag was changed in the process and the nerfs just kept coming, one after the other. There was a time on Mattherson where VS population was driven into the ground because the FOTM guys all saw the nerfs and jumped ship. Not saying that balanced didn't need to be done. I'm saying that the design of the Mag was the reason, and thus... why we have to make sure to put forth feedback while they are designing new things.

That's the history some of us Mag drivers lived through, and why we have to deal with the lowest in class statistics to our weapons, the requirement to run 2/2 in order to be effective, and be completely overwhelmed in most of the normal "tanky" type of situations.

So when they start messing with balance, and start nerfing one of the only playstyles left viable for us (flank & sneak backstabber)... some of us are a bit salty about it.

Not to rain all over your party but at what range were you testing this at, point blank? 50 meters? 100 meters? 150 meters? 300 meters? 500 meters? I've read your whole post over and even the reddit one but there isn't a single mention of range so I assumed you were talking about point blank since that's the only way to achieve the best possible TTK with the live saron. You also need to compare it at long ranges were you'll be competing with the Halberd but I don't see any comparison at any longer ranges.

My current opinion with the new Saron is that it needs faster cool down default, you shouldn't have to spend thousands of certs just to make it competitive with other weapons.

But this is why their still testing out the weapons, the Enforcer is too good right now with its insane alpha compared to everything else and the Halberd is useless if these changes are going through.

I'd care...

... but to tell you the truth I'm almost at the point where I'll just resign myself to the situation.


Besides, there's one or two good NC outfits I could either just join or apply to join. ... The idea of jumping ship has crossed my mind more than once.

New and improved saron worse then the old version...

So its the same ol same ol "buff" to VS kit then along with an actual buff to the NC and TR then.

As someone that's played VS since release, I'm not surprised, guess the Mags saron will be played almost as much as the PPA is currently.

Yes the cool-down on the PTS version is far too long - but if they adjusted it to the current reload time, then I think it wouldn't be a problem. (Wouldn't be much different either)

I'm just concerned that SoE deem 'unlimited ammo' as a massive buff when in reality, it isn't in most circumstances due to all the reasons people have mentioned.

And as we're talking Magrider V1 again - asymmetrical balance is a funny thing isn't it. You would think that being hamstrung with slow top speed, low armour, fixed / low elevation gun, that the benefit of way better maneuverability just does not seem that great - when in reality, it was amazing.

Do it. I can't tell you how much it alleviate my frustration towards PS2. Just knowing you have viable choices in every weapon category and you have more than one and even a totally other dmg model. NC is the way forward, and seing they are blatantly the favored faction because some person is the creative director means they wont ever get royally screwed like the VS have done on time and time again.

I have no idea why SOE keeps thinking that heat mechanic needs both the infinite ammo AND the heat bar. Just look at Covenant weapons in Halo, they have both ammo and a heat bar and as a result don't need to be nerfed to justify infinite ammo. I think that most, if not all of the heat mechanic weapons in PS2 should follow suit.

have you ever used a turret the mag strafes from cover can you see that is a buff to how mag tankers cover no light of vision cooling going back for a shoot full load. but i really think that mag needs some help a buff of some kind because without magburner is the slowest tank out there and i tell I want to face it with a lighting with stock cannon although i remember how the story ends without a gunner and no secondary.

The Vulcan on the Prowler was a complete joke until this buff, unless you're suicidal, and will still not be worth pulling most of the time. Until the developers play with tanks enough to understand that being to situational is bad, unless you can change loadouts without pulling a new tank, then typically your best bet is the Halberd.

they are not bad at "close" encounters depends of what you define as close because i use my prowler as an artillery piece and that is why i think that unlimited ammo on the saron is bad idea a real bad idea. i think that having to tab the key and use it as semi auto for a big damage increase is not that bad. I have to say that with my top notch prowler a mag with saron is a formidable opponent against a prowler it is not a top notch vanguard, and i have serious problem to find a gunner for a vulcan in a prowler, the magburner a turbo from 60 to 100 in one second that lasts 2 seconds, but without it you are a sitting duck. i even hit a moving mag 3 out of 4 shots sometimes less but most of the time. I do not know what the deves intend, though to be its role. the other day my vanguard was destroyed by a battle bus something would never happens to my prowler on 1/2. the mag 1/2 i think i have lost against lightnings.

Ehe, magrider driving is already significantly harder than other MBT. They were prolly like, why not make it harder for the gunner, too? Ya know, cause lazors and stuff.
Nah of course I know this is just PTS.
But then again, ZOE was also on PTS once. We know how that turned out, right?

Thanks for that detailed post, Sindz. Make sure it finds its way to reddit, too, or this thread will never reach the designers.

i think that the prowler should still be as fast as it is because i think is a compensation for anchor mode, the problem i think with the mag is that to exit engagement you need the mag when i am losing the battle with the prowler i can just run for my life, with the mag i wanted to use it with fire suppression at 62-64 the vanguard is clearly faster something i noticed while racer 3 vanguards where chasing my prowler...

I think it's balanced because the VS get the Orion.

Because Orion.

Because Orion.

Mystogan, thank you very much for sharing your results and insight. I was waiting for this kind of thread to pop up because I'm amazed by the proposed changes, and not in a good way.

• Overheating kills the point of the Saron, which is magdumping. If the player can achieve a more reliable TTK at close range using the Halberd, the Saron doesn´t make sense anymore.

• Overheating creates bad dynamics for new players. It will change the Saron from noob-friendly to the exact opposite. Imagine frustrated players, pilots locking seats and so on. Also, consider this: more VS using the Halberd, more instagibbed noobs.

• Unlimited ammo isn't really useful on the Saron. It has been commented enough.

• CoF didn´t need a buff. It just didn't.

I don't understand how the PTS Saron is "balanced around the Halberd" or how it makes the gun "more interesting". It seems a huge nerf to me. Man, I even recommended buying the "Pro Magrider Pack" to my friend, and he did...

Please, don't let this one go live.

And now you guys start to realize that the real faction order is:

NC > TR > NS > VS


I'm just waiting for people to stop driving Magriders altogether and just use Lightnings.

Me and my buddy rand two AP lightings on TS the other night and teaming up on Vanguards we came away with a combined 8 vanguards and 6 lightings...and 6 sundies....couldn't do that with an AP mag.

Thanks for looking into it. I have no doubt (given dev tendencies/histories) that it will go live as is. Really sucks because you pretty much nailed it.