[Suggestion] Can TR Have Our Trait Back?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by QuantumSerpent, Dec 28, 2014.

  1. Bankrotas

    Depending on it's job, if it's job is to be a sole high RoF weapon in the faction due to how flinch worked, yeah it did need to be as high as 845.
    These days it's not as important, but it's practically only viable 143 dmg carbine NC has.


    Considering, that highest RoF I know is what 1000 RPM, I don't know how much more RoF you gonna get...


    40 meters is a range where you go into mid ranges proper, only select few infantry weapons can effectively be used in ranges above 100-120 meters.
  2. Flag

    ... Orion? :D
  3. K2k4

    I'd love to just whine and say that NC are OP but I honestly don't think the TR weapons are inferior to the NC ones. They do operate differently though. If you learn to use each weapon properly it becomes equivalent to the NC varieties or even a little better. Most TR weapons are geared toward closer ranges (within 20m) but a few exceptions are meant for mid ranges and even fewer are geared toward longer ranges. I argue that our long range weapons may need a bit of a buff because they're the hardest to use for those ranges (talking TR long range carbines, LMG's, and AR's). The big problem with TR weapons and range is the abysmal minimum damage after drop-off.

    Also, the following is how I feel about each faction's weapon selection:
    NC weapons - slow and hard hitting - more accurate and with manageable recoil
    TR weapons - fast firing, weaker hits - less accurate with impossible random horizontal recoil - larger magazine sizes.
    Vanu - most varied weapon selection, no bullet drop on many weapons, low bullet velocity except for lancer. wtf hover tank, pew pew sound. Magical ESF planes with no thrusters and better maneuverability.

    On paper NC sounds the strongest, TR sounds the weakest, and the Vanu sounds like a freak show. I think this is why people are whining about TR lately.
  4. QuantumSerpent

    They're less accurate? It seems you forgot to account for damage per bullet.
    Accuracy stats:
    T9 CARV:
    -143 damage
    -Bloom: 0.1/0.05
    -Accuracy: Range from 0.1 to 4.5
    NC6 Gauss SAW:
    -200 damage
    -Bloom: 0.14/0.7
    -Accuracy: Range from 0 to 4.5

    Relative to damage per bullet:
    Well, starting accuracy is more or less the same--slightly better for the SAW actually.
    As to bloom: (I'll only do the math on one because the ratio between hip/ADS is the same for both).
    (0.1/143)/(0.14/200)=0.999

    In other words, the ratio of accuracy to damage is identical for both. So if we each fire three shots, mine will be more accurate, yes. However, you do nearly half again more damage--so a more accurate comparison will be me firing three shots while you fire two, in which case you will be slightly more accurate and deal slightly less damage. In a hypothetical situation in which I fire 1000 shots consecutively and you fire 715 shots consecutively, both our damage and accuracy will be identical.

    The conclusion from that is: In comparison between any such set of weapons, accuracy does not come into play. You have to fire shorter bursts, but that shorter burst does the same amount of damage. (2-round vs 3-round, 400 vs 429, the difference in damage is less than 10%, and the difference in accuracy is the same, in your favor).

    In fact, the Gauss SAW, while not especially disadvantaged up-close--assuming you bother to aim, recoil at short range isn't going to do a hell of a lot (and that one I'm confident of, given that at ~20m I can empty my entire 60-round Hailstorm magazine and hit with most of the shots)--is going to get stronger further away. On reaching the distance where you need to use single-fire, the SAW will do significantly more damage per shot, and recoil when single-firing doesn't do anything at all.

    With that in mind, high RoF-low damage weapons encourage mobile, less-accurate spraying, while low RoF-high damage weapons encourage precision shooting. As I recall from reading PS1's rather more clear faction descriptions, that's the intent: TR is described as fast mobile forces while NC is described as the hard-hitting brute-force guys.

    And I'm not solely complaining about the NC (given that both other factions get into the 845 range). I simply used the NC as their faction trait is more clear. It's rather difficult to get an applicable percentage for no-bullet-drop or heat mechanics.
  5. QuantumSerpent

    Feel free. I honestly won't complain. (But we get a 967/125 carbine, to counter the GD-7F).
  6. QuantumSerpent

    Not saying anyone's OP or UP--and frankly, I don't care.

    I'm saying TR's trait is less accentuated than anyone else's. My proposed changes would not affect our general fighting power, only how it manifests itself.
  7. tf2hero


    [IMG]
    • Up x 1
  8. Slamz

    I would even be happy leaving TR magazine size largely untouched if they would just up the ROF. I mean really, who blows through an entire Rhino or Hailstorm magazine at current ROF? You're lucky to live that long. "Damage per magazine" is a silly measurement for the TR when our fire rates are barely any better than anyone else's and we can't actually get through a magazine.

    (There is a certain humor value in destroying a hacked terminal using a Rhino with extended magazine though.
    takatakatakatakatakatakatakatakatakatakataka *looks at watch* takatakatakatakatakatakatakataka *so, Frank, busy day at the office? Killed a lot of Vanu?* takatakatakatakatakatakatakataka *You bet, Bob. Cheesed some dude with a Vulcan. It was cash.* takatakatakatakatakatakatakatakaBOOM. It's way overboard in actual combat though, at the current ROF.)
    • Up x 2
  9. sL360

    If it were me, I'd take it a step further. NC wouldn't even get their hands on a 750 rpm gun. VS can have one though. To me, they were always the faction that was the 'middle-ground' between NC/TR. They get some of the traits from each faction, but at a cost of being not overly spectacular (jack of all trades, etc.). At least, that's what it SHOULD be like...

    TR is supposed to be the faction that has the lowest damage per bullet in favor of middling to high accuracy and high rof so you can throw tons of lead down range. If I have to eat lower damage balances to get that, I'll do it gladly. TORQ is a shining example of what could be imo.



    Still, no one should EVER get an 800+ rof gun except if you're TR. No exceptions. Of course, this will probably never, ever happen, because Higby. If someone ever does it, it's not gonna be him that does.
    • Up x 2
  10. Thrix

    As some people have pointed out albeit a little lackluster here, your trait is not JUST RoF, it's RoF, Mag size AND reload time.

    In Planetside 2 RoF is defined by constantly being able to fire a weapon, i can tell you right now, that doesn't mean jack **** if there is a reload time involved that is 60 or even 90% less than the NC's weapons.
    The amount of bullets in a mag supplement this thought, but what is more important is Reload time, you will see when you compare the RoF with reload times in mind most of the TR weapons still have the edge in mostly all of these situations.

    Whether or not you think this is fair is another thing, but you went off to assume RoF is the be all **** all trait of your faction, it is not.
  11. QuantumSerpent

    What? Where the hell are you getting that from?
    T9 CARV: 6.2s; 14,300 DPM (ratio = 0.0004)
    NC6 Gauss SAW: 7.5s; 20,000 DPM (ratio = 0.000375)

    The difference there is less than 20% and the ratio of reload time : DPM is less for the SAW.

    Given that even the shortest reload times are around 3 seconds IIRC, can you show me an NC weapon that has a 30 second reload time? It would need at least that to be 90% less. Or can you show me an NC LMG that has a 15.5s time, for the CARV to be 60% less?
  12. Thrix


    I dunno, i'm just trying to say that NC weapons and TR weapons aren't all relatory to their DPS or their TTK in a straight up fight.
    There's more than DPS and TTK to playing a ******* FPS.

    That... and i'm a little upset everyone's like "oh the VS, they're not really important here right now".
  13. ATRA_Wampa-One


    We're not, which is why the only weapons people complain about on VS now are the Lancer and Orion / Betelgeuse.

    Higby hates purple people!
    • Up x 1
  14. QuantumSerpent

    As I've said previously in the thread, I haven't commented on VS weapons here because:
    -Your weapons reach the same peak RoFs as NC weapons
    -NC has a more easily quantifiable trait
  15. Thornefear

    I was being snide >.>

    I seen a post here and there how TR Battle rifles are magically OP. I love them to death and they are effective weapons, but I wouldn't say OP
  16. Saigak


    Betelgeuse (pinpoint accuracy right?)>Orion>CARV>Anchor

    TLDR SAW doesnt even count here. Coz show me those BR's 100 who use it as primary LMG 2day.
    PS Thats why few days in month im just chilling playing with orion and butcher. For the all pain.
  17. Mythologicus

    I approve of all the dakka sigs that are suddenly appearing in this thread.
  18. Jolanar

    To be completely honest, the TR faction trait is a devious joke. It is stated that we have increased ammo and rate of fire which should in theory balance out our decreased damage per round. THIS IS COMPLETELY FALSE. Let's look at this with a little detail:

    1. We are penalized in terms of accuracy with our increased fire rate. The cone of fire is impossible to deal with unless you are bursting weapons that are supposed to be fired full auto. This is a loss of DPS. Why do we get increased FIRE RATE if we can't use it effectively? (Until they fix the hit detection at least)

    2. We are penalized in terms of damage with our increased ammo capacity and fire rate. This means that you need to land more bullets in order to kill the target when compared to other factions. When combined with the rapid increase in cone of fire, this only adds to a decreased ability to hit your target.

    So then what do we actually get that sets us apart?

    1. Most of our weapons are available to all factions in the form of NS variants.
    2. Larger ammo capacity is nice, but its not nice enough to make up for all of the drawbacks.
    3. The prowler is a nice point defense tool or long range artillery, however the ES secondaries don't mesh well with the intended role of the prowler (even though the Vulcan is in a decent spot right now)

    What do we need?

    1. Unique weapons that aren't simply NS ripoffs!
    2. Decrease the CoF on primary weapons please. This hurts our faction so damn badly, more-so than any other faction.

    What is the point of having an increased rate of fire if all of the benefit is completely negated by the necessity to burst everything? LOGIC!
    • Up x 1
  19. Thrix


    Everyone's Faction trait is a joke mate,

    We (the VS) are supposed to be all about mobility and no bullet drop, Yet our bullets travel at complete ****e speeds.
    And then in lieu of being (un)fair, SOE goes and gives mag rider tanks the lowest muzzle velocity and highest bullet drop of ANY MBT.
    Because yeah, they're mobile right? In no single way, shape, form or at any distance can a magrider stand up against the other MBT's in a straight up fight, but that's all balanced for some weird ******* reason because we're supposed to take the stealthy route and surprise people.. Riiight, our main tank force supposed to be used to flank and surprise other tank fleets.

    Everyone is equally hated and getting ****** by SOE because of vocal minorities complaining about random ********.
    Even this entire thread is about menial **** that has **** all to do with ballance because everyone is going through that same 'grass greener on the other side' phase. Snap the **** out if it.
  20. QuantumSerpent

    Agreed--they couldn't be, they're identical to the NC and VS versions.
    • Up x 1