[Suggestion] Can TR Have Our Trait Back?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by QuantumSerpent, Dec 28, 2014.

  1. QuantumSerpent

    Go ahead. I want NC to be the precision faction.
    • Up x 1
  2. _itg


    It might just be that your expectations for its ranged performance are too high. The SAW blooms like any other LMG, so full auto fire won't cut it past a certain point. However, it has a 0 starting CoF, so you can be sniper-accurate with single shots, and short bursts work reasonably well at long ranges.

    FWIW, I actually Auraxiumed the SAW primarily running it with a laser sight and sometimes even a suppressor. At mid ranges, the SAW is very strong, since it retains the 3-headshot kill potential, and you don't need the foregrip/compensator for that range. With the laser sight, the hipfire actually works in a pinch, especially when you surprise people by running circles around them with a gun that's really not supposed to do that.
    • Up x 1
  3. iller

    I agree... because that's the only niche it could possibly fill that SMG's and other LMG's aren't better at.
    No I'm not going to lower my standards. "Empire Specific" should mean something. That's the point of this thread
  4. Pat22


    Just a wild guess here, but have you tried burst firing the thing? I'd trade it for any of the VS LMGs without a second thought.
    Hell I have an NC char specifically so I can play SAW Heavy.
  5. QuantumSerpent

    LMGs are primarily close-quarters weapons though. Their purpose isn't to out-DPS SMGs at that range, but rather to keep on firing after the Blitz has run out of ammo twice over. Same deal everywhere: Armistice out-DPS'es CARV.
  6. Rovertoo

    I'll take an equally wild guess and say you're being sarcastic like I was? :confused:
  7. iller

    Fat lot of good that does me when we both see eachother face to face at the same time and fire at the same time
    I already have stalker Infiltrator gear unlocked for when I want to try and win fights by getting the drop on newbs
    Also got a free Mauler for when I want to CQC heavy and not constantly get dunked on

    TR seem to have it just as bad when it comes to a lot of their guns I see....
    ps: would also love to see VS guns get something more unique than just pinpoint accuracy at all times
    • Up x 2
  8. QuantumSerpent

    If you want to win a face-to-face one at a time, LMGs aren't the weapon of choice--for anyone. In TR, no LMG out-DPS'es our Assault Rifles or the Armistice. Presumably the same applies across the board. Their advantage and intended purpose is the huge magazine.

    But how weak or strong LMGs are isn't relevant here anyway.
  9. iller

    Actually it kind of is.... The way falloff works, I'd be justified in theorycrafting that a "good design" implies not being able to kill another player upper mid range in one mag unless it's a BIG mag, or every shot that didn't miss, also hit the head. This would give LMG's and Semi-autos a real niche in the game. But no, it's also possible to do that with the Carbines, AR's, and some of the SMG's which is just plain wacky. And then at long range, the LMG's are so difficult to control that they don't fill any role there either.

    From the very beginning, PS2 screwed itself over by ditching it's old PS1 TTK-to-Mag ratios in favor of the COD "waste 2 or 3 dudes with just one Mag at every range" gunplay instead. Which is why the only decent LMGs (Orion / NS15 esp...) are basically just AR's with a slightly bigger Mag but longer equip-time. I shouldn't be able to so easily 1-clip a guy at 80m with my stock Medic gun, yet it happens all the time and I'm only an A+ grade with it according to D.A.... (I'm a B* with the SAW which makes me shudder to think what a C- player looks like trying to use it)
  10. QuantumSerpent

    IMO, a fast TTK is good game design for this type of game (I can elaborate if you want), so unless you want to be throwing out 3000RPM or so, there's not much choice in that regard (or you could have 5-round magazines, but meh).

    I think an LMG gains the strength in multi-person battles, keeping in mind that PS2 isn't a 1v1 or even squad-v-squad game. Sure, those extra 110 rounds the CARV has over the Cycler don't matter one on one, but (as is in many LMGs' descriptions) if you find yourself up against a dozen enemies, the ability to not reload until you've engaged 5 of them is going to be a huge benefit to both you and your allies. That's the LMG's niche, fire support. Really, it's kind of a CQC equivalent of a sniper rifle--you use it to keep their heads down. The mechanism is different, but the goal is the same.

    Once again, however, how many people you can kill per magazine, or the merits of a broad weapon category, are not relevant to whether or not TR needs to be further ahead in RoF.
  11. iller

    I knew you were going to go there next.

    Problem is... there isn't "multiperson line battle", there's only whack-a-mole with people alternating which one steps out from cover long enough to almost die after 3-6 bullets hit them, then pop back down, use medkit, and maybe wait for shield to recharge.

    That's not actually a place where LMG does any better either. Infact it actually DOES WORSE b/c the reload time on it is so long, yet fairly short on other weapons meaning they have no downsides in the cover-shooter meta
  12. QuantumSerpent

    Umm... in a 12v12, yeah... Not as much in a larger fight though, you often don't get long enough to reload in between engagements. I fairly regularly get caught with my pants down reloading an AR or SMG.

    Regarding the benefit of mag size:
    T9 CARV vs T1 Cycler: (Same RPM and damage, 750/143)
    -CARV:
    Mag size: 100
    Reload time: 6.2s
    Magazine is emptied in 8 seconds. This makes total time per magazine 14.2 seconds. CARV will, with continuous fire, fire off 4.23 magazines per minute. That's 423 rounds, for a total of 60,489 damage per minute.
    The total amount of reloading (i.e. at risk) time is 43.7%.
    -Cycler:
    Mag size: 40
    Reload time: 3.55s
    Magazine is emptied in 3.2 seconds. This makes total time per magazine 6.75 seconds. Cycler will, with continuous fire, fire off 8.89 magazines per minute. That's 356 rounds, for a total of 50,908 damage per minute.
    The total amount of reloading time is 52.6%.

    Comparison:
    The CARV has, with sustained fire, 18.8% higher damage per minute and spends 17% less time vulnerable.

    So, in a sustained confrontation (which is what LMGs are designed for), they are clearly superior. The magazine size outweighs the increased reload time. And machine guns are not designed for quick hit-and-run confrontations. That's why we have SMGs. (I compared LMGs to ARs instead of to SMGs because their overall design is similar, whereas the SMG is a specialized CQC precision weapon).
  13. Bankrotas

    And instead of asking devs to make it more viable VS whined for it to be removed. That's biggest issue with Planetside 2, it's players are being pampered too damn much.
  14. Bankrotas

    LMGs are NEVER primaraly close quarters weapons. Not a single one ******* LMG is.
  15. QuantumSerpent

    Well, what is their intended range then? No LMG that I'm aware of hits worth a damn past 70m, and even if it did, you could beat it with a Battle Rifle at that range. And I've never had someone pose a serious threat to me past 50m with one of those (I can't say where I'd use it as I don't play HA).

    Perhaps I misapplied the term, but I regard anything within 70m or so as close-quarters, as opposed to Battle/Scout/Sniper Rifles at long range. Certainly within 50m, where you're getting away from the strong area of longer-range non-sniper-type weapons like the SABR-13. In other words, if it's not long range, it's close range (in my mind).
  16. ColonelChingles

    The TR can get their faction traits back when they give up access to OHK sniper rifles and shotguns, as well as the revolvers. It is clear that those hard-hitting weapons should only belong to the NC! :p
  17. QuantumSerpent

    Different situation. BASRs and PA shotguns are niche weapons which need a certain trait in order to do their job properly. A carbine does not need 845 RPM to do its job properly.

    Besides, my proposal is, ideally, not to take away your GD-7F and the like, but rather to give us better RoF stuff. So what we would actually do under that idea is give you guys stuff like a BASR with 1000m/s bullet velocity or a PA that does half again more damage than necessary, so you don't need to be as precise with it.
  18. SinJackal

    Bro, your changes to those weapons would make them OP as hell. Apparently you don't seem to grasp the concept that higher rate of fire spewing out lower damage bullets = higher DPS than crappy rate of fire spewing out inaccurate higher damage bullets.

    Yeah, TR has higher DPS than NC's weaponry for the most part with the exception of GD-7F vs Lynx. Cycler TRV has higher DPS than GR-22, Carv/MSW-R have higher DPS than Anchor does. So. . .we basically don't have a positive faction trait. Our weapons do less damage overall, not more. They're also less accurate to balance out the extra damage per bullet, making the NC player have even less effective DPS.

    If you really wanted to make a legit complaint about this, you should be complaining about the Orion having the same exact rate of fire, exact same damage per bullet, and exact same ADS accuracy as the T9 Carv while also having additional benefits like much better hipfire accuracy, 50% faster ADS strafing speed, no bullet drop, and a faster reload speed. Negative trait: You have to wear purple.


    If your 200 damage weapons are as inaccurate as the Gauss Saw, those will be tears of joy when we see you idiots using that instead of Orions.

    Also, seeing TR players full auto Gauss Saws as if they're going to be as accurate as Carvs. . .again, tears of joy and laughter as all those bullets miss their target.
    • Up x 3
  19. xArchAngelx

    It doesn't help when they have recoil backwards for the TR... We are supposed to start off with a high burst, but its supposed to get very low on sustained fire...
  20. TriumphantJelly

    They could (probably, don't know if it's technologically feasible) give TR recoil that starts off with a low FSRM, fluctuates upwards by about 35% for 25% of the magazine, then goes back down by 40% for the next 25%, then ends on a 15% increase for the last 25%. Just theoretical nuimbers and completely subject to change, but interesting nonetheless.