[Suggestion] Heat mechanic guns are OP!!!

Lack of arguments? My entire argument is recoil is a non issue for any one who is half way decent and doesn't have Parkinsons. You are the one who is trying to compare high ROF weapons to low ROF weapons at 40m. And then bringing up the TORQ for some reason. News flash shooting the TORQ at 40m is a bad idea because it is like shooting peas at a person, it tickles. It is a waste.

1) Fix you UserOptions. I used to play at 30 fps and bellow and still could do 25 - 30% accuracy with very few issues.
2) Recoil is a non issue and TR recoil is a non issue. You are making excuses for your poor play.
3) Ah huh. Clearly it doesn't show.

You forget that the Betelgeuse is a stock Orion with no grip. It has the same recoil as a stock CARV. Not hard to use once you learn how.

This thread has taught me there are so many different playstyles, and that we seem to value quite a lot of different things.

Moving forward I will take a lot less for granted.

And devs....please while you have the nerf bat out....please please nerf the damn dark purple spandex...They're ninjas in the night. SO HARD to see them, make it bright purple please.....I don't even know why they aren't green in the first place....Red, Blue, Green, the primary colors. Purple doesn't fit. Thank you.

It's super stable and reloads in a flash, what's not to like?

The only good thing about this post is that it's not about the Orion.

Posts like this remove interesting traits which I believe makes the devs less inclined to try new things.

Unless you can predict and adjust you aim 12+ times per second, horizontal recoil can't be compensated.

Yes 1 TORQ bullet is qui low damage, but at 857 RPM with quite decent accuracy, it's 9 bullets to kill (non nanoweave-no overshield) for a weapon that shoots 14 bullets per second with quite good accuracy.

I've fixed it with a new computer: I3 proc with 4Go ram on an overheating laptop wasn't ideal, but you must be stat padder that redeploy once hitten by a single poor bullet to take care of stats.
BTW despite you awsome recoil control aiming MLG skillz, you have no auto weapon with accuracy >30%

Nothing interesting to learn from an orion/SVA/betlegeuse/blueshifts noob friendly weapons pro to learn.

Yes it is sir.

Like the Butcher is a stock carv with no grip and a 167 damage tier weapon bloom.

have you ever tried to use a 167 weapon with 750rpm??

Apparently I'm in some weird minority because the battlegoose isn't anywhere close to being my best gun. I like it for the interesting effect on gameplay more than anything, but I can't see calling it OP in any serious context. I get more consistent kills
with an NS-15, and it's pretty rare that ammo is an issue playing heavy unless I need to use Anti Vehicle... which aurax weapons don't help with (now if I had a heat-based lancer...). Also, the stats on the aurax weapons are going to be inherently skewed because they're earned by people who have put an abnormal amount of time into getting them (so higher average skill levels).

On the other side of the fence, I'm in another minority because I love the Eclipse. It's terrible for engineer so I'll leave that be, but it's an awesome utility gun for light assault. Ammo is a constant issue for a class that needs to go "outside the lines" to be effective, and it opens up armor slots in my case (no longer have to run ammo, free to run bando/nano/capacitor). You have to be careful with heavies but that really hasn't changed much from my normal play style, and you have to keep the underbarrel in mind at all times (this is how you deal with shielded heavies as an ambush class). The reload is super short if you don't overload it (one of the perks of the solstice, gun the eclipse is based on), and on the second engagement you have the head-to-head advantage, assuming you depleted said heavy's shield and/or overshield. Unless you're up against more than one heavy, if you're using cover and engaging properly as a light assault the weapon is wonderfully flexible, powerful and synergistic. Finesse is the key.

As for the Dorkstar... I don't have it yet, but I get the funny feeling it's gonna suck. It's the worst parts of the Betelgeuse and Eclipse on a class that doesn't have the flexibility to exploit it and rarely takes extended front lines (so tends to be close to ammo sources). On top of that I'll go out on a limb and say that VS Medic is probably the worst class in the game to aurax from the AR comparisons. Probably needs a capacity buff, or something similar.

It might be me, but the only faction that has a semblance of recoil difference is the NC. TR and VS are virtually identical and the only difference is in the reload speed and magazine capacity. NC have better recoil patterns than either, but require more fire discipline to compensate.

Or maybe I feel that way, because I try to auraxium all those NS weapons lately. Who knows.

One thing is certain, if you played under 20fps, then your bigger handicap is not recoil, it's the enemies ADADing. I know because I could tell when my fps dropped below 40 and aiming enemies doing the dance started becoming problematic. Close combat is problematic in low fps against aware enemies.

I don't think anyone's actually complaining about that mechanic except on the Betelguese. So maybe we can stop skewing the discussion by talking about the AR and Carbine heat mechanics.

I'm not trying to say it should be nerfed, but ffs, at least make the Butcher and Godsaw good too instead of just being downgrades.

However, you can "cancel" the cooldown at any time and shoot immediately without having to switch to your sidearm first. So that mechanic is essentially a gun that's always reloading and the reload can be canceled and let you continue shooting at any time unless you overheat it. In which case you can simply switch to your sidearm, fire off a few shots (or medkit tank), switch back, and oh hey look . ..already cooled down for me since it cools down even when it's not equipped.

Which is why it's excellent. A tiny break in the action automatically gives you a full magazine without taking away your ability to fight back at any time and never having to resupply ever. Meanwhile, I started reloading my Gauss Saw last week. It should be done reloading by New Year's hopefully.

The problem is it is just performing SO well (on the Betelguese - from its release and still is), there's been plenty of threads about the Orion and Anchor, yet they perform much less well, relatively.

It doesn't work this way. If the gun enters overheat and forces reload, switches to sidearm and back to the gun will merely restart the reload circle. Only if the gun does not enter overheat it dissipates heat while you have your siderarm up.

Edit: Nm me, I reread what you wrote, you understand how it works, just wasn't immediately clear that you did.

I don't have the time to answer your entire post because I am on my phone... So I won't.

I suggest you look at my Betelgeuse stats. That gun has 30% accuracy and is constantly going up. I sadly auraxed the weapon before it had Heat, back when it had horrible COF so my stats on it are a bit off. My average sessions stats with the weapon tend to be about 30 - 36% accuracy with an average HSR around 30 - 35%.

Yeah 143 weapons type are mostly divided in 3 types:

-Low RPM 0.2/0.2H.recoil.
-750RPM 0.25/0.25H.recoil (wich looks like to be a TR trait with 125 damages tier weapons but Orion and carnage)
-800-840RPM high horizontal recoil.

Yep 167 & 200 damages tier have better recoil patterns (mostly vertical one) with a bit worse bloom.

Yeh playing under 20FPS, many things makes aiming harder, especially 0.75x ads move mult.

nope, like shantehr you're confusing horizontal recoil and recoil bias:

the bullets area would land completely randomely between max left recoil and max right recoil.
If you want to compensate it, you needs to:
1) predict the next horizontal recoil shake (wich is completely randomeley)
2)adjust your aim at any shot fired.

wich is quite impossible since weapons shoot between 9 and 16 bullet per second.

I'll just let this nice link here:

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/recoil-mechanics.166398/

Maybe you would learn something interesting?

I checked some while ago the stats on the battlegoose and it was miles ahead of every other LMG. Since people like to claim it's "just an Orion without attachments" maybe Orion is overpowered after all? Personally I think people underestimate the infinite ammo part by a huge margin. Most good players run more often than not out of ammo on Orion and since good part of engi players are apparently deaf you're often stuck with your sidearm or redeploying. The other heat guns definitely aren't overpowered since they seem to have similar ammo as auto scouts.

Stop lying, now.

Seriously this forum is bad enough without posts with flat out lies in them. The Butcher has a built in forward grip, the Betelgeuse does not since it was changed to a heat mechanic weapon. If you have to lie to make your point, you've lost the argument.

The only thing I am not sure about is whether the Butcher got a horizontal recoil buff at the same time as the Carv it is based on did (if it hasn't, it should).

I wasn't sure, then: back to patchnotes:

Update Notes 8/29 (August Update)
T9A "Butcher" (TR LMG directie reward)

• Removed barrel attachment
  • Hip cone of fire bloom reduced from 0.12 to 0.1
  • Aimed cone of fire bloom reduced from 0.06 to 0.05
  • Vertical recoil increased from 0.85 to 0.9
  • Horizontal min/max recoil increased from 0.19125/0.19125 to 0.225/0.225

It had it bloom adjusted, indeed.

But losed also its auraxium compensator barrel attachments. (compensator + foregip).
We were both wrong.


Game Update 10/2

• T9 CARV
  • Annual Terran Republic Military performance review has revealed an unacceptable level of inaccuracy among Republic heavy assault soldiers. Loyal weapons engineers have corrected this with a minor improvement to the horizontal control of the venerable T9 CARV unification platform. The T9's new replication schematics have been updated on all Republic equipment terminals and deployment facilities.
  • Horizontal recoil reduced to .21375 (down from .225).

The Carv buff came later. Not sure that the butcher have been updated too tho

I would fully support the NC and TR getting the same mechanic. Its a very fun mechanic to use. If you can manage to time things right to stop at 39 bullets to let it recharge and then keep firing. Its quite easy to do once you get used to the weapon. It adds a tiny bit of spice to a otherwise ordinary gun that makes it awesomely fun to use.

I am playing nc more these days and quite honestly I really really miss having it.

Huh, the set of patch notes on the Wiki claim that the Butcher gained SPA when it lost the attachments

http://planetside.wikia.com/wiki/August_30,_2014_Update

I do hope they gave the Butcher the same horizontal recoil buff the T9 Carv got, if it doesn't get the grip, though if it has SPA, that isn't too bad.