[Vehicle] Liberator Tank Buster - TOO MUCH DAMAGE

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Bidaum, Dec 20, 2014.

  1. Archlyte

    Tank Buster should just be a Heavy Cannon like the Tank Main guns. Same burst damage, but requires a good hit and near useless for air applications.
    • Up x 1
  2. Sandi18

    I agree with Bidaum, the guy that created the post. I created (last month) a similar post, talking about heavy tanks being reduced to medium tanks, almost light tanks with all the recent "balance" updates...that a heavy tank practically loses everytime that fights a liberator, even with the best equipment with all defenses against air...

    This without mentioning the recent update to the harassers...they make a car/jeep/harasser be way better then a lightining and a heavy tank...i dont know what they think on their heads...probably they want to lose players making players be uncomfortable to play the game....
  3. Icedude94

    • Up x 1
  4. radrussian2

    people that rag on the tank buster never take the time to touch on the fact that its hard to use. its not like anyone can just pull a lib and go kill a tank, its balanced. not on paper but in practice.
  5. Auzor


    Actually...
    recently on Hossin I got a lib from someone else in platoon; no platoon members seemingly wanting to pilot or gun, so solo-lib.
    First time flying a lib as pilot.
    I flew twice at enemy lightning, tankbuster blazing; reload in air-hover in front of em,
    and tank their viper shots..
    got two assists..

    If you mean the crappy flight scheme: that should not be how balancing is done.
    If you mean the 'low velocity' projectiles: they go faster than AP rounds.
    If you mean the lib manoevrability, and lining up a shot: well duh.. it is still too nimble.
    The belly gun should be the main weapon, yet, nvm, the front one can one-clip an mbt too!
  6. DFDelta

    Vipers?
    Try that again against a Lightning that is actually armed.
    (Well, if the driver is bad and trying to trade blows while standing you'd still win, but be much worse off afterwards)
  7. Auzor


    So you've got good aim.
    Didn't want to risk a 450 mbt for it?

    btw:
    basic sundy takes: 100%*(1-0.45)*(1-0.525)=26.125% of damage from the tankbuster.
    mbt rear (prowler/magrider): 100%*(1-0.3)*(1-0.41)=41.3%.
    Could my mbt get some of the armor those sundy's are made from??

    La piece de resistance:
    Blockade armor sundy.
    100%*(1-0.45-0.12)*(1-0.525)=20.425
    Oh, and the rear is even less.
  8. Silus


    You need at least two, maybe three Skyguards focus firing on a Lib to drop it before it can scurry away. Honestly, that should not happen.

    IMO, if a Tankbuster can single-clip a Lightning, then a Skyguard-geared Lightning should be able to send a Lib limping away in flames on their own. Lower the Lib's resistance to Flak a bit and things should balance out.
    • Up x 3
  9. Icedude94

    Oh I use my MBT all the time for anti-air. My outfit doesn't have the numbers to afford having people sit around waiting for aircraft to show up so I have to multi-role with the weapons I have.


  10. Einharjar

    I seriously don't get people...

    I seriously don't. Not the whiners and the nerfers. I'm also surprised at these threads and I don't know why; I've seen them for 2 years straight now.

    A Tank Buster Lib is supposed to shred armor. it's actually embarrassing that the damn thing doesn't really do squat versus a sundy with blockade. The Damn Lib is a GUNSHIP. It's a FLYING BRICK WITH GUNS. BIG GUNS. That is it's job.

    If this is supposed to be a game about scale, then it's supposed to be about Combined Arms and Team Work. You shouldn't be worrying about having that COUNTER WEAPON VERSUS TANKS being NERFED into a USELESS COUNTER. You shouldn't even be worrying about how Tanks can gun down an approaching lib with the "Git Gud and use Awareness" approach.

    No.

    If you have Libs in the area; call for freaking Air Support, okay? Air Superiority. Clean the Skies. You lose the skies? You lose the fight.

    The fact that a Lib is a bit too good at dog fighting is the only thing I see that's a problem with it... other than that? I think we've ripped the balls off of the bull dog enough. It's gotten to the point now to where if I see libs over head as infantry? I just shrug my shoulders and keep doing what I've been doing.

    This game is about scale and there for if you're thinking about things on a 1v1 basis - YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG.
    Just an FYI. I mean, why choose to play a game like this and concern yourself over 1v1 mantras and balance? When the fights can easily have 96+ at any given time? Use you're team mates man. Plenty of fly boys available I'm sure.
    • Up x 2
  11. dopy7dvs

    I realize this is an old thread, but for those of you who cry nerf for the tankbuster, I challenge you to fly a lib regularly. You may find it to be the most difficult vehicle to manage effectively. Those that do it well DESERVE it! Most of us do not fly it well and do not utilize it to it's full potential. Especially after the years of nerfs it has absorbed and the amount of hard counters in-game. Vehicle, turret, and infantry. After many hours of attempts you may find a greater respect for those players that wreck using a lib instead of crying "OP".

    I have stated this in previous threads but most assets in-game can be considered "OP" if you spend enough time getting to know how to use it. Most vehicles/load-outs require specific situations to be effective. Learning these situations and adjusting accordingly is what makes a good player.

    Many times, I have adjusted to a situation by simply leaving the current battlefield. There are times when your enemy has a greater advantage. Recognize those and move on. Don't just keep beating your head against a rock and cry "OP"! Learn situational awareness.

    The beauty of Planetside 2 is that it constantly forces you to change your tactics. Effective tactics will change with a patch, the addition of a vehicle, infantry/vehicle weapons, etc. A tactic that may have worked in the past, in a specific situation, may not work well now. Adjust and learn. Don't cry "OP"!
    • Up x 1
  12. Mythologicus

    I remember you! You sent me a rage tell specifically because I killed you with an Enforcer ML85. I have to give you the benefit of the doubt now and say you were either drunk or playing psychological warfare at the time, because your post perfectly describes the problem with the mentality of PS2's playerbase, and one of the major issues regarding Tank Buster balance discussions: Flying aircraft, Liberators in particular because of the co-ordination and planning required, is something that you're either naturally very good at, or you're not. Thus the majority of people who fly Liberators have invested a lot of time into it and are very experienced and naturally skilled at what they do, and so the majority of Liberators appear to annihilate opponents with ease. In reality it's not as simple as pointing, clicking and rolling in certs. It just appears this way because the majority of people who fly are those who are sufficiently good at it to not get shot down every few minutes and therefore suffer from substantially less frustration (and frustration leads to abandonment). With all of this said, as a Liberator pilot I cannot yet handle dogfights with enemy ESFs. I blame the same deal, with myself constantly going up against experienced and invested pilots.

    Not to downplay tankers at all, but ground warfare is not the same. Stealthy, sneaky flanking and the like is hard to pull off, but very few people do that. The majority of your tankers like to sit on the front lines being, well, tanks. And it doesn't take a lot of effort to be stationary, shoot targets, and then reverse when you take too much damage. It's not the same game.
    • Up x 1
  13. Obstruction

    TL;DR: just don't read it, if it's too long. i'm probably not even talking to you anyway if it is.

    even when you're one of those crews, you have days where you die every few minutes and get frustrated with it. but you also know that it passes after a while and you can get back to having a good time eventually. sometimes the only thing to do is take a break and play ground for fun. i find i'm actually pretty good at dedicated AA because i know how air units move so intimately. i also get a fair amount of kills because i know the vulnerabilities and play to kill rather than play to deter. i also like to close quarters snipe with the iron-sights semi-autos. even though i'm borderline bad (usually pull 1.3-1.6 k/d) at infantry it's still fun.

    on to the topic at hand; none of the really good lib pilots should care if they nerf TB or not. it won't affect my play style at all really, if they do. TB is good in the few situations that you use it, and the guys that specialize in it are pretty dangerous within the confines of those situations and the few maneuvers they have available. i've been jumped, dunked, or otherwise bested by good TB pilots my fair share of times, but in nearly every straight up lib duel with those same guys it's the belly gunner and to a lesser degree the tail gunner that really matters - and how effectively their pilot positions and tracks targets for them. against skilled ESFs it's 100% your belly gun and your ability to track and keep pressure on them by closing the gap against their reverse and roll. everything else is farm, with the exceptions being TB as the alpha strike against hardened Sunderers and Aspis turrets. but that's neither farm, nor competition; it's objective play. and that's an important set of distinctions that lead me to my next two points about overall balance.

    my only concern in this entire matter is simply that the TB is the only good weapon in that slot, so the initial developer phrasing "bringing it in line with the other weapons" basically meant leaving pilots no good options at all. i'm sure some vector or spur proponents will chime in here to dispute me, but we all know that it will just be ignorant words from the mouths of the inexperienced; or possibly some sort of attention seeking contrarianism. TB is the only good weapon in that slot. and so, if there were to be some sort of reduction done to the TB it should definitely be in conjunction with buffs to the other weapons, and preferably in the form of resistance specializations (AP, AA, and AI.) furthermore any changes made should seek to retain as much of the initial power of the TB as possible for the AP air strike role, while bringing the other weapons up in power to make them more attractive for alternative uses.

    finally i'd like to point out that the majority of complaints here are likely cropping up due to the directives based incentives to get both TB kills and tank kills. as previously noted by many posters, the TB has been this powerful for a long time. actually it used to be more powerful. it's been nerfed directly at least once, and then indirectly nerfed at least twice through resistance values and HP of the most common targets. it's only now that players are actively looking for a way to complete directives with little regard for the risk of failure that attempting (and sometimes succeeding) to one-clip MBTs has become anything approaching a common situation. and as such, it really isn't healthy to base game balance decisions on a flavor-of-the-month play style, or gimmick farming trick like this. however, it is a good reason to have a discussion, and to seriously review the mechanics involved. that is healthy.
    • Up x 1
  14. Mythologicus

    I read the whole thing and you are very correct. Bonus points for "the guys that specialize in it are pretty dangerous within the confines of those situations and the few maneuvers they have available". It varies from airframe to airframe, but there's only so much you can do with the nosegun alone and relying on it will get you killed.

    As for the other nosegun options, they are pretty much trash. The only use I can see the Vektor/Spur having is for taking down fast-moving fleeing air targets or at least negating their autorepair if you can't give your gunner good angles. But you're not going to actually kill anything with either of those weapons.
  15. Auzor


    The lib can tank AA and shred it, like skyguard lightnings..
    One of the supposed lib counters.
    You shouldn't be worried about the FLYING BRICK being shot down by AA weaponry. That is the AA's JOB.

    An ESF can kill an MBT from behind with the nosegun only faster than the lib.
    Then there are hornet missiles..
    Face it, the ESF has way more powerfull A2G than A2A weapon options.

    The lib can have guns, mobility, or armor. Not all three.


    "You lose the skies? You lose the fight"
    -> So much for combined arms..
    Air > all, game done.

    "It's gotten to the point now to where if I see libs over head as infantry? I just shrug my shoulders and keep doing what I've been doing."
    Enjoy the zephyr rounds going your way..
    • Up x 1
  16. Doc Jim

    lol, Tankbuster being "hard to use"...

    Seriously? When the enemy has little or no AA weapons in the field, a solo Liberator can eat face.
    When the enemy starts fielding AA then of course you'll have a hard time, regardless of whether you're using a Tankbuster, a Vektor or a Spur.

    Don't give us that "wah wah, the Tankbuster is hard to use!" Enemy aircraft or AA make the LIBERATOR hard to use, not the Tankbuster.

    IMHO the Tankbuster is fine against ground targets, yes, it's strong, and that's OK. But it is definitely not hard to use.
    What I find problematic about the Tankbuster is the fact that it effectively has 1200rpm due to the TWO projectiles per shot and the fact that it is so much stronger against aircraft than the Vektor . Yes, the Vektor has better range, but that's the only upside. The Spur is a joke...

    I think aircraft should generally gain increased resistance to the Tankbuster, thereby limiting its usefulness to ground targets.

    P.S: And by the way, it isn't the Tankbuster that is eroding the tank gameplay, it's infantry and AV Harassers.
    • Up x 3
  17. Pelojian

    this.

    The only time a liberator is under threat is when it isn't picking on lone tanks. (i.e it cant do a run and if tank not dead hover and use bellygun) for example this week i was on a high cliff in a prowler with another prowler. TB lib decided to hover from below the clif-face for a sneaky run, went for the other tank and i shredded him with the vulcan at close range.

    I think given the TB fires two shots at a time it should not be subject to the rear armor damage bonus on tanks. i think doing this would silence most of the complaints about it.

    Hopefully they will look at tank survivability with the resource revamp to make them worth the nanites compared to other vehicles not tied to the ground and infantry.
  18. Takara

    It isn't relevant in the least to this topic.

    In order to be even close to what the OP suggests requires the full clip extension mod on the weapon which is several thousand certs. Then requires the liberator to get BEHIND the tank...AND LOW ENOUGH to hit their rear armor. IT is important to note that in order to hit the rear armor of a tank you have to be with in 45degree of the target.

    To further explain this...if I'm above the tank and shoot the tanks rear end if I'm above the 45 degree angle it is considered TOP armor damage. Which even with a full extended 44 round clip...it will not die. To be inside of the required zone to get a rear armor shot on a tank you have to be in a zone that puts you in threat of being hit by both that tank...and every other tank on the battle field. WHICH infact will kill the liberator with 2-3 rounds which takes less time then it would to close into the distance required to land all 44 rounds and be with in the damage cut off before they don't do enough damage. EVEN THEN..all the tank has to do is turn to the side...which is pretty easy to do with every tank on the field.

    The OP's well stated (but one I disagree with) argument is that the TB is OP because the pilot A) Got behind enemy lines. B) is still alive with out picking up lots of ESFs C) Sneaked up on an oblivious tank driver. D) Was skilled enough to fly that low and land ALL 44 rounds flawlessly into the back of a tank.



    Basically, what I'm saying...is the OP is asking to nerf a weapon because people are ignorant about what they are doing. IT would be like asking to NERF the proximity mines because as an infantry guy I don't have time to bother and look at the ground. They should instead have to drop two or three of them in order to kill me... OR I can't be bothered to duck so snipers should have to head shot me twice in order to kill me regardless of Nanoweave( Basically the same argument with a different weapon )
  19. Cest7

    I would favour more accuracy over Damage on the tank buster...
  20. Pikachu

    Today was one of those rare times where the liberators is useful. Around The Bastion us terrans were scattered with some vehicles shooting a few vanu vehicles. No infantry support and no AA guns, just some vehicles not knowing what to do really. The liberator dived and destroyed with his tank buster, several times. I bet he loved it. A rare sight it is.