TR needs some love - even the pro players agree...

I have extensive time in both Banshee and PPA Scythe.

1) who knows what post-nerf Banshee will be capable of? To conclude that you can fight air with it after the nerf is pure speculation and silly.
2) when comparing the Bansee and LPPA, you have to look at the entire loadout and the traits of the ES Vehicle being used. Just looking at a weapon by itself, and not factoring in the loadout or ES differences fails to communicate the full comparative issue. Banshee and LPPA full loadouts can both provide poor but usable A2A and at least very good AI (with the Banshee currently being very, very good AI: OP).

My suggestion theory:
Try to keep the "spirit"/(play)style of the weapon the same for players that like how it handles (and for the things they like most), while changing the specific excessive level of things that victims hate most about it.

My suggested change:
1) Give the Banshee a distinct firing sound, that is both loud and recognizable as the Banshee
2) Change the Resist Rate for MAXs so that a fully upgraded Banshee Mag (perfectly on-target) can only do ~75% damage to a full health MAX
3) Change the Resist Rate for Infantry so that the (perfectly on-target) TTK is slowed from 0.4 to ~0.6

If that still doesn't feel right, then further adjust Resist rates to (1) lower the % damage on #2, and/or (2) the TTK on #3 until it does.

My reasoning:
* does not mess with the core style/feel of the weapon for Banshee users (so it's a nerf, not a revision)
* gives it a sound to alert enemy players it is being used
* no longer 1-clips a full health MAX, but it can trade serious damage with one
* TTK on Infantry is slowed, so ESF has to spend more time over target (more vulnerable), target has more chance to react (fire dumbfire at it, pop shields, jump/jetpack for evasion, etc.), ESF must be more careful with it's firing Window to address targets.
* still feels distinct from the Light PPA and AH
* only making changes to FIX what the identified problem is; NOT changing other things that are not identified as a problem

I have used both LPPA and Banshee extensively. Banshee (in current form) is in most cases the better AI weapons. The stats back this up:
http://ps2oraclestats.com/monthlystats/

There are situations where the LPPA can outperform the Banshee at AI (such as hover farming clumps of infantry that are not fighting back), but in most cases the Banshee can outperform the LPPA at AI.

How so?

The Banshee has a very fast Time-To-Kill on Infantry targets at closer ranges. It's by no means instant, but I just assume people meant it was "crazy fast" when they say "instagib".

Airhammer kills just as fast if not faster than the Banshee.

Just spawned a MAX. Road the elevator up to the top of the tower. Barely hit the ground before I heard a "Bamf bamf bamf". Was dead in under a second.

So I find the "Banshee TTK is too fast" argument for nerfing it to be bull at best.

Ok, that's cool and all that you don't care for RoF.

But, that's supposed to be the TR trait. The TR's faction theme is/was supposed to be about being the best at putting lead down range. It's cool and all that you're not a big fan of RoF, but that's what the Empire's spin was supposed to be and it's why a lot of people joined it.

If you like the VS or NC weapons more because they have standout traits that aren't RoF and/or aren't dipped into as heavily by other factions, perhaps you should make a VS or NC character.

you didnt bother to show the other top down view did you. besides where is the source.

I said RoF should not be the current priority for the TR.

I already have both a NC and VS character, if it wasn't clear enough for you. I play all three and I find TR's selection of AV weapons generally less satisfying and effective at long range.

People do not join primarily because of each faction's perceived traits. TR's pseudo-"high RoF" trait is not why TR players stay in TR.

The fact is that having higher RoF on more weapons isn't going to get you far, especially if you consider balance. Faster TTK? That would only make VS and NC players complain. The high bloom, horizontal recoil and CoF is already enough for TR players to deal with. The TR can already hold off fine AI-wise with their current weapons, that's why RoF should not be the current priority. High RoF on everything would ruin the novelty of the trait anyway. And what good is high RoF/DPS if you can only use it at close range?

Again, it's the ESAV part of their arsenal that needs a check, otherwise the TR has to rely on the anchored prowler, AV MANA, etc. for the bulk of their medium-long range AV kills. There are far more options for a VS or NC player to nail a moving magrider, vanguard, harasser, etc. at range than for a TR player.

meanwhile.. so back on the subject of infantry weapons.

You can do fine as TR, but with all my experience, I think it's safe to say most of our empire specific stuff is junk. Our infantry stuff isn't bad, lot's of it is mirror copies of other factions weapons, with different models and perhaps slightly different stats like reload speed, ammo capacity, lack of 0.75 ads, etc. Thing is, the other factions tend to have the better mirror versions. Our repeater pistol is pretty amazing too but the rest kinda suck.

It's mostly our MAX's and ES vehicles that tend to be bad. Personally I'd rather run a lightning then a prowler. Anchor mode can be good, but usually it's just a death sentence. Same can be said with lockdown on our max's. Our max weapons are trash compared to the other factions with the exception of pounders in particular situations (inside buildings creating earthquakes, holding down chokes). Shield or mag burner are always good. Using max shield or zealot don't root you in place with a limited turn radius. When it comes to using secondary weapons on vehicles, the NS ones are the better choice. Halberd for AV, Kobalt for AI and basilisks for multipurpose.

All in all, TR is fine but a min/maxer super competitive type would be right to pick NC first, and VS as a second choice.

It started months ago changing the gun sounds. man I miss the carv's badass sound.

What guns in the NC Arsenal would you trade for mostly? The GD7F, Blitz and other "TR" weapons? Or the Gauss SAW the like?

A lot of them, really.

Carbines:

TRAC-5 for Mercenary
T5 AMC or Cougar for AC-X11
Lynx for GD-7F
TRAC-5 S for Gauss Compact S

ARs:
I like the Reaper and Carnage, but really TR's ARs are alright.

LMGs:
CARV or MSW-R for Anchor
TMG-50 or Rhino for EM6

SMGs:
Both Failstorm and Armistice for Blitz and Cyclone, easily.

If I had to pick between picking their high DMG or high RoF weapons though I'd certainly take high DMG since they have an abundance of them that feel considerably better than TR's ranged options. And of course the Cyclone is ridiculously strong compared to all other SMGs.

TR is fine.

But you are right about TR not being interesting oh boy how boring that faction is.

In my experiene the top view simply doesn't matter. If you get to shoot at him from above or below you will hit any of the three easily.
The "meta" (I hate this word) is hoverduels, nosegun against nosegun, and the scythes slim profile is simply a huge advantage there.
As is the strong upward thrust of the Reaver.
And the Mosquito has..... 15km/h faster travel speed? I forgot the exact number, but the "advantage" is simply useless. Even worse, because when speed is important you use the AB. And the Reaver is faster than the Mosquito with AB - which makes it kinda absurd talking about the Mosquito as "fastest" ESF.

He doesn't really have to. The Scythe is by far the easiest to hit from any other angle besides head on. Makes it a much easier kill if surprised, or shot from the ground than the other ESFs. 1 vs 1 it does have some advantage, though I haven't run into a true 1vs1 for some time now.

Tr do need some love but the TR weapon that needs the most love is the TRAP because right now it lives up to its name ITS A TRAP!! As of right now the trap is the worst sniper rifle in the game.

Extra rounds per mag is not of equal value for all guns, yet they treat it like is and the downsides they balance it with end up ruining a large number of our infantry weapon options.

The Hailstorm is probably the best example, 10 extra rounds is nothing on that gun yet its loss of RoF on top of pretty awful recoil ruin the weapon.

I think they also need to stop putting it on all our Carbine/ARs and just on a few guns that are "faction flavory" and play nice with the trait.

Yeah, I agree, sort of, it is just that if you look at this (I need to do one that includes DPBullet too as it shows it more clearly):

the only thing the TR is really lacking (potentially) is a 125 DPbullet tier weapon (so 909ish RoF) in LMGs and ARs (that is one changed to be that).

Carbines are actually very balanced, where as if they made the GD-7F a 167/690ish weapon it would be difficult to argue for the TR to continue to have a 167 Cougar when the NC then have no 143 weapon (only 200 and a lot of 167s) and because then NC only has the GD-7F just above the NS RoF.

So currently (Carbine-wise) it is:
200-167-167-167-167-167-167-143
167-143-143-143-143-143-143-125

Where as it would be:
200-167-167-167-167-167-167-167
167-143-143-143-143-143-143-125


And as you say no matter what is done VS weapon DPB/RoF balance is tricky to say the least.

This doesn't really have anything to do with balance or diversity because RoF and DMG aren't even close to the whole picture. Accuracy and TTK isn't being accounted for here, which are the result of a wider collection of stats.

Overall when it comes to carbines, TR has more middling accuracy and TTK weapons many of which make others kinda redundant/obsolete. They have nothing as accurate as an AC-X11, nor with as low a TTK as the GD-7F. NC has more variety of accuracy : TTK ratios that are often more favorable as well, since TR has their oft complained about horizontal recoil issues.

So if DPB and RoF have "nothing to do with faction diversity" what exactly does?

Accuracy and TTK? The things I just said in the post you quoted?



Although depending on what you mean by "faction diversity", it may be a term I don't really agree with in this context. Giving X faction more of one type of gun and less of another relative to Y faction is just reducing the diversity of both individually, not making them more interesting in any way. What makes factions more unique is the weapons with special mechanics such as the Lasher and MCG.

TR needs more RoF variations for carbines. Right now it is just 750 and below, with the only thing above that being the god almighty 909 RPM lynx. I would love it if the TRAC 5 were changed to 800 RPM, adjusting the other stats accordingly. Assault rifle are good, they are all different from 600, 698, 750, 800, 845, and 857. LMG selection is quite boring, I would like to see the MSW-R move up to 800 RPM, again all other stats adjusted accordingly, and the Butcher to move up to 845 with a 134ish damage model. Truly making it deserve the name Butcher.