[Emerald] Why does SSGO, DA and AC tk so much?

Try to put it this way instead. Let's say we're in real life (i know it can be hard to imagine when we live in forums of planetside 2 (not judging you, it's just to ease up the atmosphere)). Your country is in a big recession. Whose opinion are you going to give more credit to; a high school student who had an introduction to economics class who passed with 60%, or a doctor degree in economics who's been working for the Fed?

I normally reserve this attitude for people who talk about the Iraq war and were never there. But this isn't war or politics, this is a game. So let's be civil.

To be clear: a person's stats have no bearing on their experience getting TK'd. A KD>1 or <1 doesn't change what happened.

Fair point, but it's disingenuous to assert I consider everyone better than me is elitist. Because they're not. There's a difference between an elite player who just plays the game, and and elite player who ***** on everyone worse than him.

As these threads do, someone managed to slip in a "DA is legit, except for those unnamed cheaters in it."

Obviously, that person doesn't link his playercard with the purported reasoning of "we'd TK them".

Anyone with a KD under 1 doesn't understand the game well enough to comment knowledgeably on player skill. That's the reality of it. I play this game an obscene amount, and I discard out of hand the person who hasn't put in the time or effort to discuss it with me on at least a similar level. You want to talk about the new player experience, by all means. Saying someone hacks because they beat you 10 times in a row with 1v1s? I don't really want to hear it. Similarly, if someone wants to discuss game balancing issues--your stats are your bona fides. Your curriculum vitae. I didn't play DOTA for 2 days then hop to the forums to explain just how the game should be designed, and I have always hoped PS2 players would extend the same courtesy. Usually to my disappointment.

So yea, I have a certain amount of disdain for people that paint us in a bad light--either through misrepresentation (like the OP) or through baseless accusations (like that other guy).

Sorry, but after 2 years of people ragging on you it's hard to not have a certain amount of "contempt" for anyone who elects to join that particular bandwagon. I sucked and I got better, I didn't just say "I'm fine the way I am, anyone better than me is clearly hacking."

You don't need to defend a Lion. The OP's post was an attempt to draw you out and paint each of you as Elitist players who don't care about anything but your stats and yourselves. Your comment cemented that sentiment held by many. It's none of my business. Say whatever you like. If you want some advice I would act more like a Lion and forego any future comments that paint yourself and DA in a negative light. But what do I know I'm just one of the useless irrelevant players that has immense respect and admiration for your achievements as players.

Nice analogy. You must work for the Obama Administration. I see your Doctors Degree really helped out. What the hell are you talking about? I'm not saying you guys are cheaters or anything of the sort. I'm not accusing anyone of anything other than poor judgement. But I guess I don't qualify to have an opinion because I'm not as good as you. That's the kind of elitist statement these guys want you to keep saying. Your just feeding the damn fire.

Let me rephrase that. Suppose my country is in a big recession. Whose opinion am I going to give more credit to: a 12-year old with skill, or a 12-year old with not so much skill?

That was more in jest than anything. I don't list my playercard because it isn't relevant to anything I've been saying. More importantly, there are times when people get so upset over a forum conversation that they will actively set out to ruin someone else's in-game experience. My leisure time is too valuable to me to bother with such, so the opportunity isn't and will never be for sale.

Everyone on these forums is more than capable of conversing based on what's said.

False and limiting assumption though. It's like the guy that assumes just because someone works the land, they must clearly not be an expert in economics. This is when I come to believe some of you guys are lacking a bit of life experience as things are rarely quite that simple.
Sometimes the cowboy leading the pack on a dry riverbed actually used to be a stockbroker in Boston who decided to go a different way.
Sometimes the middle school kid has a pretty amazing breakthrough at the science fair that leaves MIT professors smiling over how ingenious such a young mind can be.
If you pigeon-hole people and then only consider their contributions in accordance with the hole you stuffed them in, you could be doing yourself the disservice. Just sayin'.

Another reductionist point of view when most are saying something completely different, including me.

You seem to be most upset that I would suggest it possible that someone with a particular clan tag could be using third party aids. It's as though you're coming from the attitude that just because someone has a particular clan tag, it means that he or she is unflappable.
I come from the point of view that there is a lot of pressure to perform to maintain membership with an exclusive group. People ascribe their own self-esteem to belonging to such a group. It would not at all be beyond the realm of possibility that they might succumb to the temptation of enhancing their performance when they can. Night time is a more likely window of opportunity for such behavior. Night time also happens to be when I've encountered some that didn't look like the others I respectfully died to.

You've worked hard to be where you're at, and belonging to an exclusive group is something you take pride in. At every turn I have gone out of my way to point out I am not throwing a blanket statement or judgement over any group by virtue of their beating me regularly. On the contrary, I have said many times I appreciate the challenge such players provide. "Whoa, that was good," or "Why that clever little...," is actually a really fun way to lose.

However, I'm not about to give anyone a blanket pass just because of the letters after their name. PhD's have plagiarized. That doesn't mean I'm going to assume all PhD's do, that would be an absolute and a disservice not just to them but to myself in missing out on their expertise and insights. I'm also not going to assume someone is right just because they have a PhD listed after their name. A world renowned architect selling me the Brooklyn bridge is still not going to get my money.

Not the approach that's worked for you? I have no problem with that. I also have little problem with the problem you have in the approach that works for me though, and if something looks suspicious to me, no number of letters after anyone's name is going to pull the proverbial wool over my eyes. Sorry.

Exactly. After all, there is no way to prove that you are legit, that's the reality. Anyone is capable of cheating but until you have solid proof against that person you need to just assume they are legit.

If your infantry performance is poor, then my words may have been harsh but I stand by the sentiment. Similarly, I offer zero insight into how air should be balanced against air, as I'm a terrible pilot.

This isn't exclusive to PS2. You can hop on any game forum and you'll have bad and/or dumb players posting their uneducated opinions. It's why most of high level DotA players for example don't post on any forums at all unless there is a gamebreaking issue. Most of the more "rude/toxic", as the internet would deem it now, high level players will answer you that the subreddits and official forums for more popular games are full of ******* and you should never bother opening them if asked.

I think you are taking it too personally. His point I believe is that while both bad and good players can understand the game enough to give balance input only the good player has actually proved they do understand things by preforming well. For the bad player its all just some theory. Its like being given a math test in college then just handing in a blank sheet of paper and telling the professor that you understand it in theory and expecting him to pass you. If you show no proof you do understand things you really aren't taken very seriously as an individual.

But back to ps2....The point isn't to say bad players should be ignored as a whole. If you have 1000 bad players saying the same thing about a balance issue then chances are that it is something that could be improved. If you have 1 bad player suggesting a balance change and no one backs them up chances their input isn't very valuable.

Your reply is completely irrelevant. Better luck next time!

I don't normally care about outfit drama but I don't think I've ever been TK'd by DA in a manner that wasn't just the usual randomness.

You know bob, when i started playing i couldn't even reach 1 KD for a while. Unlike what you guys seem to think, we didn't arrive to the game being MLG ready or anything like that. Planetside 2 was my first fps game and i couldn't even win a single 1v1 against any one. I learned the game mechanics and kept learning about them until i reached quite a good level of play. I'm not the best, but i sure know that in order to be in the top players, you need to know about the game a bunch lot more than your casual player. It's not an insult nor is it elitism, it's a fact. If you are not mature enough to admit that top players know more about the game than casuals, it's your own delusion.

Have you ever seen my cry about coding? No, because i never learned much about it. Have you ever seen me argue about A2A balance? No, because i haven't done much of it yet. I understand that i don't know everything, you should try to understand too. If any one is arrogant here, it's the guy who barely knows anything about a subject and still thinks his opinion has equal value to someone who knows a lot about it.

You know, following this community for 2 years now... I really don't think I'll ever understand the resentment and hatred that get tossed at the more dedicated outfits.

The numbers were presented earlier in the thread, and it's pretty cut and dry: The outfits named in the OP don't TK that much. Why this has stretched on for 7 pages is beyond me, there is a tracker for this. If you have a case or you have a specific person... name them. Otherwise all this is, is a poorly executed attempt at shaming.

You seem to forget that a big amount of the top players (have a big correlation with the amount of the Hackusations they recieve) went to SOE live and to other outfit gatherings and played live in front of a real audience. For example, Vonic was even streaming from SOE life while he was playing a bit, and yet there are still people calling him hacker every day.

Also, here's an example: you have Competitive outfit A and B. They are not even from the same server and they participate in CC/farmers league. I think it was 24v24 and 6v6 or something like that, both outfits are competitive level, both are very skilled and both are fielding a majority of players considered as Hackers by the casuals. I'm sure we both agree that competitive level players would be able to detect cheaters more easily than casuals, and there is no reason for team A not to call out team B's cheaters if there are any (and vice versa) considering they are not from the same server and they are against each other.

Then how come no one from the Farmer's league or from CC was called out to be a hacker? Even though they are the same players that are objects of whole threads against them such as ''Cheaters or p2w ers''. And how come were they performing even better during the matches than on live server if they weren't using cheats?

There are plenty of proofs. Bads who send hackusations just ignore them because it could break their ego.

TIL

I'm a team killing hacker who also has ego issues.

What would I do without the official forums. Thanks everyone.

Sure seems to be a lot of useless sub-1-kdr players in this thread. Get good, terribles.

You seem to contradict yourself here because you say i'm elitist even though i respect players with ''lower stats'' than me. I myself stream and chat with players without caring what their KDR are, in game i play as medic right now and support people that are not ''elite''. Not so long ago i made a whole Thread dedicated to help them https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/yuukis-tips.200263/

In case you didn't know, I have nothing against new players, casual players, not MLG players who play this game and try to improve themselves instead of calling anyone that beats them a cheater. You know, PS2 was my first FPS game. Do you know what that means? It means i sucked terribly at the beginning. I couldn't 1v1 for my life, i thought everyone was so good around me, and i threw myself against the strongest enemy players i could find because i knew i'd learn from playing against them. I even sent a hackusation to Visigodo before. Not because of his aim, but it was the first time i saw someone using a medkit and he spammed it until i emptied my mags. I sent him like ''wtf you have infinite HP'' and probably some ''you hacker'' too. He just replied to me that he was using medkits and it blew my mind.

Little did you know, after 1 month of playing i had session K/Ds of 2 quite often, and ended up joining AC as my first Outfit. The day i joined, the whole AC took a break during like a month, and the reason I joined was to try playing as a team (not knowing how lucky i was to get accepted in AC at the time), i left and joined DA (wasn't even aware that DA was another great outfit). Now i'm officially in DA and all my alts are in AC altfits so i'm as close as can be to be in both outfits at the same time. The truth is yes i got really lucky to join these outfits, and thanks to this luck, i've been able to learn about the game and improve so much.

Now that you know about my scrubby past, I think you should also realize that in everything i said, I have never even posted on the forums at all. I didn't talk about game balance, i didn't talk about people being Hackers and i didn't talk about stats because i knew that i didn't know enough about it and wanted to wait until i had more experience and played better to start even reading the forums. Little did i know that my way of waiting until i'm knowledgeable enough to talk about the game was more of the exception rather than the norm on forumside.

My point with this long post? I know how casual and less performing ones think, i was one myself before. But i also know that their experience is barely comparable to the top players'. And i didn't just know this when i became a top player, but i knew it from the start, so i'm sure it's not impossible for everyone to understand it too.