TR and Server Smash open discussion: Is anything wrong? If so, what?

So with the last IDK how many server smashes now(at least 7 I think), TR has not been chosen by either side to compete. Now, server smash =/= live. TR could potentially be overpowered in one but underpowered in the other even, they're such a different environment.

However server smash is arguably a lot more competitive and pushes players to play objectively and in a coordinated manner. Numbers are also more even, and there's a sense of urgency that removes a lot of the KD-padding focused play. It's still probably worth considering why TR is not chosen for SS as it could improve balance overall.

So let's speculate on what the issues might be. Maybe it's just player perception, but I feel like there's got to more to it than that.

TR is my least played faction, so I won't pretend to fully understand their situation. But from what I know of playing them a bit and playing against them a lot more, many of their weaknesses seem to be vehicle related, and vehicles don't play that big of a part in server smash - at least not ground. So I'm puzzled.

Maybe it boils down to simply the LMG options. HA is the main PS2 infantry class even moreso in server smash than on live. VS and NC seem to have their preferred uber-LMGs while TR's seem a bit more mediocre.

Anyway, what do you think?

For me:

SS is heavy focused on base captures , it makes:

NC Max strong for CQC battles
TR Max not worth it

Orion best LMG
But i don't think NC lmg > Carv so

Prowler almost useless for those kind of pushes aswell

So just those 3 things makes TR worse for SS metagame imo

personally... its a CoF problem... you can auto fire for longer in a reliable pattern with NC or VS. TRs CoF gets way out of hand and requires smaller bursts to land shots.... even in CQC full auto is often a death sentence as our spread grows faster than other factions...

TR has about same CoFs as typical VS weapons.

I think you might be confusing it with horizontal recoil, which TR does typically have more of than the other factions.

NC; Reaver, ScatMAx, Anchor/Cyclone.
VS; Orion, good suppression(PPA/Lasher).

I am sure there are more reasons, but those are the key aspects I noticed during the last SS between Cobalt and Emerald.

Still, it is surprising to see such an absence of TR since I am sure MCG, MSW-R, Pounders could make for a deadly combo. Also, Banshee is also a very scary AI weapon. Marauder harassers should also provide good suppression.

SS room capture is focused on heavies, in which the TR has (in the SS leader's opinions) the weakest of the 3. Although TR ARs are powerful, they are not valid replacements for LMGs and most medics in SS are supposed to have a medtool out instead of a gun. The TR MAX, while having the very powerful pounder guns, is very weak in the AI chaingun department. Nothing really stands out compared to blueshifts or ScatMAX guns.

The ground vehicle game in SS is lacking severely, not surprising since it is based around quick deployment and Air. So Prowlers are useless in SS.

The Mossie has mixed opinions as to potential effectiveness in SS. On one hand, Banshee. On the other, one of least powerful rotaries out there and the stock gun is kinda wimpy. Mossies would have to rely on mass tomcat/coyote spam with a banshee primary and e-shido keeps good pilots from using good loadouts.

And in the end, metagaming comes into play where people want to keep Emerald from playing VS. Apparently Roy wants to get the Emerald SS team to choose TR at some point but obviously that hasn't happened.

In short:

Reaver > Scythe > Mossie (for A2A)

Orion/SVA-88 > Anchor/EM6/Cyclone > CARV/MSW-R

NC AI MAX > VS AI MAX > TR AI MAX


That's server smash in a nutshell: Point push/defend and air dominance(and redeploy spam). TR is inferior for it.

It's because they don't have the fastest ESF or tank or biggest mag sizes or best overall rates of fire or best MAX for spamming doorways and killing other MAX or best prox mines or best dmg tank or...

It's probably just because fewer competitive people play TR since it's easy mode, and they prefer their main faction.

TR's faction trait is more bullets to compensate for low accuracy, not something any PRO player would go for.

You should as well check out what the most players play on the servers. It's normal that people tend to the faction they are most used too. TR is currently simply the smallest faction. NC has the OP weapons, Vanu has the fun toys....and TR is rather boring(not to mention that the faction isn't interesting as a whole either).

So TR isn't used in competitive play because they're too powerful and competitive players don't take every advantage to win? Brilliant.

It's actually likely due to the Emerald being the juggernaut and also having a fierce VS base. Emerald wants to pick VS because of this, while other servers could pick it to deny Emerald the VS faction. Second runner being NC because SS is perfect territory for the NC MAX. Not to mention top air is usually VS and Reaver players.

Well, and RoF, but that didn't exactly go so well for them.

When it comes to faction balance on live TR is perfectly fine balance wise. Even for small competitive events such as a 12 v 12 or so there is nothing wrong with them. However when it comes to large scale like SS they are not chosen for a couple of reasons. Reasons people have stated above...however I will say them again.

By and large if you want air dominance you pick the strongest ESF for AA which happens to be the Reaver. While the Scythe may be the best for pure 1 v 1s the Reaver is best for massive death balls. This isn't to say Scythes can't win. The Mossy on the other hand is an AI king with the Banshee but lacks in the AA department. The former two are much more balanced.

When it comes to MAXs the NC win hands down. This doesn't even require explaining you pull a squad plus of NC MAXs and you just steamroll. The sheer power they bring to caps and defenses can't be beat.

Infantry wise, SS is DOMINATED by HAs, there are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. You can't even argue this fact. The VS have the best LMG in the Orion and have a damn good one in the SVA-88 as well. Sure the Carv and MSWR come close but close isn't good enough. The TRs best trait when it comes to infantry play is their ARs. TR medics are the strongest in the game. While that is great on live, Medics in SS are not doing NEARLY as much killing as they are on live. As a result the one benefit TR gets as infantry is entirely moot.

It comes down to a couple of things.

NC for best potential air dominance and strongest MAX
VS for the best HA and still really good air
TR if you want want average across the board

The TR just don't fill a role. This isn't to say TR needs to be buffed, it just doesn't fit into the current meta for SS.

i really have no idea why.
considering the huge latency for EU players on Testserver matches (despite having a better ping and connection than to EU servers... cause SOE)the LMGs TR issue to every class would be my personal first choice.
like.. we once had a small 3v3 skirmish and none of us could use a weapon below 5000DPM because lower ones simply let the enemy survive.
not scale that up to a ~300v~300 when the server is having an actual workload...

Let me get this straight. In a post about Server Smash where the best of all factions from server play together in an extremely competitive match, who are looking for any advantage they can get, and your response is..

"LOL TR EZ MOAD!"

There have been 24 ServerSmash matches held since February. TR was chosen as a faction in 12 of those events, exactly half.

What you are seeing is a very recent fad. TR was last used in a smash in September. Connery used to play exclusively as TR, but after loosing two games in a row just before the beginning of the tournament the faction fell out of favor with the players. Unfortunately faction choice wasn't Connery's problem, so it didn't change much.

TR is an excellent choice in ServerSmash for several reasons, but the biggest one is their ESF. It allows players to get to the distant points faster than their opponents, and you can equip the most potent A2G weapon in the game currently and still be able to perform medium to long range A2A with the same nose gun. Pounder MAXes are nothing to mess with in close quarters, and when you are down on resources to pull a MAX late in the game, they are the only empire that can pull a Chaingun Heavy rush instead for no nanite cost.

More than that, even if there were some provable metric to judge that TR was indeed inferior to the other two empires head to head (which there isn't), ServerSmash is perhaps the only area that doesn't matter at all. We have had two matches since we started keeping stats where the winning server had less kills than the loser. Because ServerSmash is only about the objective, your killing power only matters in so far as how it helps your server get the objective. If the other side is gimped with inferior equipment but is better at getting on the point than your side, they will win, regardless if you have more kills than them.

To use a specific example not related to TR: Cobalt didn't get NC Arsenal and the rest of the north of Amerish in the championship match because "VS OP, buff NC plz." They won it because they had a brilliant feint strategy involving 4 platoons crashing on the base at a specific moment after having secured the surrounding territory, and their squad leaders on the ground used great tactics to make sure they stayed in the fight just long enough to keep the base contested while the others were assembling.

What Mosquito Weapons Loadout are you talking about? Needler + Hornet? Needler + Rocket Pod?

The Banshee. It has a longer reach than the other faction equivalents of the Air Hammer (which is great for close in 1v1 dogfighting, but getting in close tends to get you killed quick in ServerSmash style deathball air play) and L-PPA (which has almost no A2A capability at all) and opens up the possibility of all secondary attachments to the ESF since the nose gun can fill both other roles.

An L-PPA Scythe with Tomcats will be able to suppress the ground very well, and help take out distant air targets, but if you manage to bring the engagement close they might as well just eject. A Mosquito with a Banshee and Tomcats can break off trying to kill that sunderer, defend itself close in the air, and have the long range reach of the lock ons for killing.

/thread

I have to wonder how much AI matters in SS though.

It seems like whoever wins the air game decides which ESF does more infantry killing in SSs. If you equip an inferior AA set up, you lose the air game, and then there may be no infantry farming to be had. Securing air dominance seems to be more important.

In most of the SS games, one server's ESF kill way more infantry than the other, regardless of which ESF it is - sometimes it's Reaver, sometimes it's Scythe. It's easy enough to kill infantry with any ESF, what matters is that you're not being harassed by other ESF while you do it.