Kill the pointless faction specific AP mine.

Compare Q4 KPU of Kraken and Decimator. Kraken higher KPU. Therefore Kraken OP and Decimator not?
Compare Q4 KPU of frag grenades and you´ll see that there are tendencys that the VS one is better.
Q4 KPU vehicle grenades, Kobalt (Sunderer),...: You would have to buff the TR one since it performs worse most of the time.

KPU isnt a reliable stat even if you compare the exact same weapons with each other, much less when comparing weapons that differ from each other. Q4 wont change that.

Can we kill this thread yet? Claymore is not OP. No balance is needed.

I also want to add that the NS-15M has been outperforming the Orion as well across all 3 factions and by a pretty substantial margin, even across Q4. That doesn't seem to support your claim at all. So you can try discounting the NS-15M as a good weapon but it actually outperforms the Orion.

Armistice has preformed better than the BB and PM due to the fact it has actually at time intersected the other SMGs periodically at KPU's. It also contends with the NS-7 PDW effectively and against the Blitz and Sirus it looks average.

Same with Hailstorm.

Also you are saying TR gets an asymmetrically balanced piece of equipment nobody else gets. Why? How is it not asymmetrically imbalanced? What makes it balanced? Explain.

Really? Common pool?

I already dispelled this. The frag grenades all function the same despite minor aesthetic differences. This has no bearing on weapons that function differently from each other. Also the Q4 grenade graph looks nothing like the AP mine graph.

You are really missing the point...

Your data looks nothing like the data I have shown ever. There are great ammounts of fluxuation in the example you are presenting and the data I present doesn't show a single moment where CM's KPU ever dips below anyone elses, and it goes on for months at a time!

If you truly wish this thread to die is must die the same way as the last claymore thread.

on topic, to the OP and other claymore haters:

claymore is not OP, you only perceive it as such because "you got killed by it"

learn to enjoy the warm hugs from TR claymores if you are unwilling to check doorways for explosives.

You mean locked by unconstructive posts?

You think I hate Claymores? Why is it I have said multiple times I think it is a good weapon and want it shared if I hate it so much? Wouldn't I be getting Claymored more?

Yes. Discount all the proof I have laid at your feet. Hell even discount the issue where players can obscure their own claymore with their body by sitting on top of them and take no damage or anything when it blows up. I don't care.

Wouldn't I be taking more "warm hugs" if this change went through? Do you read your own posts before posting them?

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Maljas another thing about assymetrical balance. I have no problem with different factions being different if they can be balanced at all but take a look at the evolution of the Claymore. Before it was nearly useless and functioned terribly. What if I came and said to you back then "well it is called asymmetrical balance and the devs promised it to us so deal with it". My inbox would be filled with death threats. What has changed that the TR's overall balance should be offset by the Claymore since then?

Nothing. SOE are just trying to rescue a bad idea they had and it turned out pretty good. Now it is too good and you can not just start claiming it is yours and you disserve it because years later you got a good set of patches.

Imagine if a week ago SOE came out and said to everyone that the PPA is fine and it fits with their idea of "asymmetrical balance" for a minute. I'm sure everyone would be out in force on the forums praising SOE for their commitment to keeping factions different. Not.

Moreover with guns you have options, you can pick an overperformer or an underperformer. With mines you are stuck with the underperformer or the overperformer. You have no options. SOE has never made a design decision like that before. Why should they start now?

1) you hate their lethality and hate your own mines less killing potential and rather then asking for a fix to your ES mine and fix the stand on claymore and not die you are asking for TR's claymore instead.

2) it is you who is ignoring stats that don't agree with you global stats on number of kills of all three lines are close together the difference is a gap in how many use mines effectively across factions

3) you would, however there's a thing called faction identity, claymores are one of a few of TR's weapons which are effective and interesting, we get shafted in tons of ways with lame weapon concepts because they liberally give us low damage high mag weapons across the board. Claymore and Prowler main guns are OK, but we only have one decent max AV weapon the pounder, fractures are a poor man's raven minus the guidance and damage for a doubled clip size.

interesting and powerful weapon concepts get given to NC and VS, TR gets the shaft because they want all most all our weapons to have large clip sizes with lackluster damage and it does not translate well across different roles.

a faction trait does not nor should ever mean it gets applied across the board on everything.


YOU want to take one of our good weapons and say to NC and VS don't fix your mines STEAL FROM THE TR CAUSE THEY SHOULD HAVE THEIR GOOD STUFF MADE COMMONPOOL AND WE SHOULD ALWAYS HAVE BETTER STUFF THEN THEM!

I am asking for TR's claymore. I am also asking for NC's and VS's claymore for my TR. I also advocated for a fix to the stand on claymore multiple times in these forums. I hate nothing. Just your constant false accusations.

I already explained this in my response to what FrozenCustard said on the last page. That is because the number of TR players using CMs is significantly lower. I wish you would read. KPU never changes. Different numbers of TR players are consistently getting greater effect out of their CMs. Go and check the graph again, this time look farther back than just 3 months. When the number of players using CMs was higher than it is now the number of kills was at it's ceiling, high above the other two mines.

Use your basic graph reading skills if you have any please.

"effective" and "interesting". You will try and say they are good any way you can without saying they are overpowered or overperforming compared to the other two wont you?

AP mines are the only unlockable non firearm weapon in the game that is different aside from ESFs, MBTs and MAX special abilities and the only one unique when two others aren't. Imagine if TR and VS both had to use slightly different looking prowlers and NC got to use an overpowered Vangaurd. Would you just let that slide? Or TR and NC both had to use different looking Reavers and the VS got an overpowered Scythe.

Like I said to Maljas a moment ago what if we claimed faction identity when the Claymore sucked and left it as it was? Would you be happy? I'm sure you would be here wanting the VS or NC mines then.

They created common pool weapons just for people like you.

You flip flop multiple times saying the CM isn't overpowered and then you turn around and say you deserve to have it because it is admittedly better. Pick your tune already. I don't want to trade anything that is unique for TR that isn't already unique for NC and VS. When we have unique things and so do TR I don't mind. PMs and BBs are not unique. They are carbon copies of each other with miniscule differences.

Besides it isn't stealing if we are duplicating, or are you actually afraid NC and VS CMs will steal your CM kills? No you are afraid of getting killed by your own weapon. I think I'll return one of your own quotes right back at you.

The thought of that doesn't feel nice doesn't it?

There is balance ffs. NC have their little "LOLIWIN" Shield. VS "had" PPA. (It's still a good weapon once you learn to use it.) TR has our claymores. Deal with it.

Claymore are always right inside the doorway and are easy to see.

Check and you live.

It's OP against mindless noobs that just run in a straight line and don't check the doorway.

That isn't balance.

NC have the Vanguard Shield but VS have the Magburner and TR have Anchored mode.
VS have/had/whatever PPA but TR have the Marauder and NC have the Canister

Then

TR have the Claymore and VS have the Bouncing Betty and NC have the Proximity Mine (did I get that backwards? I really can't tell)

You are equating different + different + different to different + same + same. It just happens that the one different in the latter equation is doing really, really well. That is my whole point here. I am getting exhausted restating this over and over.

Besides TR has plenty of good gear already.

• Mini-Chaingun puts the Lasher and Jackhammer to shame.
• TRAP outdoes the Railjack and Phaseshift.
• P2-120 HEAT outperforms the Titan-150 HEAT and Supernova PC
• Pounders pretty much outperform everything
• And the Banshee dominates over the M30Mustang, Light PPA and every ESF nose canon in general

If you have problem weapons that designate TR to have special exceptions please tell me what they are because other than the Striker I don't know what they are.

It's been fine for a long time. With claymore you HAVE to put them in a good spot. That is why they are used less if the good spots are taken you hold on to yours.

While the VS and NC can through them down in more random places but are not as likely to get a kill with every single one because they just get tossed on the ground alot.

When you are fighting TR check doors way because that is where the mines are going to be and you will almost never die to one again

Mini-Chaingun and Jackhammer are different. The Jackhammer is an amazing CQC weapon, while the MCG is a support weapon
The TRAP is a scout rifle, while the Railjack and Phaseshift are BASR.
Pounders are outperformed by Scattermaxes

If anything this thread confirms all the stereotypes about the TR are true.

Funny you brought that up. You know what other weapon is different between the TR and the VS / NC?

How about we just get rid of them in general and actually kill them? There's nothing skillful about placing a mine in a spot someone won't see before they're on top of it, there are never any impressive kills with a mine. All they serve to do is annoy people that step on them.

Please explain. Because if you say "they want to protect their OP weapons", I will post a link to every thread about VS whining over ZOE and PPA, and every NC whining about Railjacks and Phoenixes

So basically TR get to save up on their nanites more as well is what you are saying? I'd say that is a pretty good deal considering when you do put one down then you get a higher return.

So now we discount weapons from being judged on fairness because they function fundamentally different? Yet you can decide Claymores are fair despite the fact they are also different?

Additionally you compared the AV MAX weapon Pounder HEG to the AI MAX weapon Scattercanon? Breaking your own rule right there. No the Pounders outperform all other AV MAX weaponry by a large and unchallenged margin.

I compared items were either identical in purpose or had a relationship with each other like being added in to the game at the same exact time. I did this to show TR does in fact get good special weapons and there is no favoritism biased against the TR.

Added the Banshee too, check that out.

It's actually a weakness except people are stupid. If your playing against TR check the doorways. They are only a few spots in the base you can put a claymore.

In this game if you get blown up by a mine.....It's your fault. They are not hard to see.

There is even a implant to totally negate land mines if you can't be bothered to look and are getting torn apart by them

Yeah hang on, let me check the doorway for a mine that can not only cover the entirety of the doorway and reach all the way across it, but will instantly detonate the second I make LOS with it and does enough damage to kill literally everyone except a MAX and a flak-armored heavy with his shield up.

If your getting rekt by mines in this game...I don't know what to say to you.

Are you running with Flak? As someone who kills his fair share of careless players I seldom die to mines. Why? BECAUSE I CHECK FOR THEM!!!!! Try that out before whining about how bad your mines suck. By the way, I also have an NC toon and he does well with the BB so don't give me that garbage that you guys have inferior equipment. You have inferior knowledge of how to properly place and utilize your equipment. End of story.