Kill the pointless faction specific AP mine.

Not Claymores.

PM and BB's have a delay. TR blows up instant, with bigger kill range in blast area (because there's half as much of it... which is actually a benefit in friendly defended rooms)

I have already been corrected on this. I am now aware thate being killed behind them is likely a strange lag comp glitch. But thank you for being civil

I usually try to be

Sometimes I get... irritable I suppose

i said all

Adding instant trigger to the Betties/Proxys would go a long way to making them being able to cover doorways, since right now you just outrun the lethal blast radius.

So you want them to be just as effective at doorways than claymores? The only strong point of claymores are those doorways. Aside from that they only have disadvantages compared to other mines. But it seems you dont care about those disadvantages since "worse at doorways" equals "flat out inferior".

RE: Paint illustration - The prox has more mushrooms, he's bound to be having a better time ...

I know i repeat myself from page one but all we need is a buff to 1100 or 1050 to mitigate the biolap benefit. Right now i am not laying mines as NC or VS anymore.

You cant score a kill against a full shielded, full healthd non- Infiltrator with the bouncing betty or the proxymine as long as your enemy holds at least one biolap.

The terrans have 1250 damage and the other two just 1000 which is not enough for a kill. Only the claymore can one-hit-kill now most of the time. The radius is not a problem.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how 360 degree detection and blast is some magical war-winning quality that the TR are envious of. If the Claymore is so awful and the 360 degree range of the other two mines is so neato-cool and fantastarific, how come not a single TR who's defending the claymore has expressed any desire whatsoever to switch to an area-detonated mine like the NC and VS?

There is no point to placing a mine anywhere BUT a doorway, unless you're using it as a superpowered frag grenade, which is not the point of a mine.

The only time 360 degree blast / trigger is useful is if the mine is somewhere where enemies are expected to approach it from any possible direction. That means placing them somewhere in the open. Which doesn't ******* work because the mines glow in the goddamn dark and are huge-*** colored metal discs that blend in with literally not a single surface in the game.

If "the point" of the VS and NC mines is for them to work like that, then remove the lights and give them 75-80% transparency when placed outdoors, so people can't just see them from three bases over. Oh, and remove the ability to Q-spot them.

A lot of the things that people are asking for the removal of here (spotting mines, glowing lights, etc) weren't there in the beginning and were added because they were necessary. They aren't going away.

As for removing the Claymore, ehh. It's had its ups and downs. It was the worst mine for a long time, largely because it was bugged so it only detonated when enemies were in front but then did damage backwards as well. Removing faction differences isn't a good thing, but I agree that there's never been a compelling reason for the TR to get something different when NC and VS have the same thing. My counter-suggestion would be to change either the Bouncing Betty or the Proximity Mine to be as distinct as the Claymore is.

I'd be happy if they just dimmed the lights a wee bit on the Bouncing Betty's and Prox Mines. It's really kind of ridiculous how bright they are.

For sure lol, its very easy to spot the Vanu mine....3 glowing dots on it. I still sometimes get smoked by it when im focusing on the guy in the room and not the mine on the floor...but from across a room or something, oohh, whats that? 3 green dots...lets shoot it....

Did i ever say it is a war winning advantage? Is it a war winning advantage to have a one directional mine? Mines are insignificant and dont really affect the outcome of a fight. I even said in one of my two postings that it is (in my opinion) hard to tell whether it is balanced or not.

But giving the mines just more damage or damage radius so it would kill the same way as a claymore does isnt the solution since it would be unbalanced for sure. The claymore would be a limited and therefore clearly worse variant of those 2 mines. And that´s what i didnt like about the posting i referred to.

Just because you think it isnt the point of a mine to be used like a "frag grenade" at tower or other indoor fights it can be used that way so it has to be considered. It doesnt matter if you dont like mines being used that way. Part of the gameplay means part of the balance topic.

Also, since i play infiltrator quite frequently i often find myself in a situation where i need to get away from some people that found me as fast as possible. Running past a corner and drop a mine without any delay for stopping, turning, placing makes a huge difference. Even if they dont die from the mine because they saw it or survived it, it will delay them a bit.
Other advantages of the 360 degree mine:
- Going on a suicide run into a group
- The "mine grenade" throwing from higher places
- The possibility to cover several directions (mine hidden behind small cover like boxes or racks in the middle of the room)
- Covering both stairs if they face each other (e.g. the ones in biolabs)

Overall it is probably a bit more difficult to find good spots for this mines than just drop them besides a doorway if you just aim for a free kill. Instead it offers a wider range of possibilities to use it.

I wont mind changing the mines since it wont affect my gameplay. I just dislike to take more and more empire specific stuff away from each faction.

I swear this place always cracks me up. Some of the main ones saying "it's fine" and that they are against doing anything about claymores are some of the loudest people screaming nerf vanu everything.

Either way **** doesn't bother me, I don't die to any mines very much and when I don't it doesn't bother me at all. Just add the green lines back to CM's and worry about more important stuff. Like a VS hoverbike when higby?!?

Faction differences are critical. FACTION DIFFERENCES ARE CRITICAL.
This is a war game with 3 factions
Doing things to reduce the basic premise of the game attacks one of the core concepts of the game.

AP mines....stop making them so *^$# obvious....glow in the dark...seen through walls....DDDDDUUUUHHHHH.

That would probably actually make them worse. Right now the trigger works by letting some poor unsuspecting schmuck run into the epicenter before it blows up by using the delayed trigger. If it exploded right away it would probably be a detriment to the mine as a whole since the kill radius on it is just 2 meters and placing it behind a doorway or corner, CM style, the schmuck would have to turn the corner as sharp as possible to actually enter the 2 meter circle.

CMs are actually quite effective in a lot of situations. Take for example a teleporter. You can't place mines directly inside of it or else they will detonate right in your face and kill you so you are forced to plant it a few feet outside of it. So when an enemy uses the teleporter there is a high chance he wont move right away after teleporting. Meaning it will trigger whatever BB or PM is there and it will explode harmlessly with its miniscule kill radius compared to the CM but if it is a CM it will likely be able to use its slightly larger kill radius to nab the kill.

Repeat this with grav lifts, spawn shields, jump pads, ect... While the BB and PM require the schmuck to run at it once he leaves those entities the CM functions perfectly just instakilling those people.

There is also the matter that you can place a CM at your feet, stand physically on top of it, and continue to exist when it goes off which is useful in a lot of situations. I have seen people obscure their CM from my vision with the limbs while crouching while on top of rocks and towers and even when in the corners of rooms and it blew me to hell any time I got close or just wounded me enough for the guy to finish me off while he took absolutely no damage from the explosion.

That could just be a bug but you can go and test it for yourself. Go into VR and unless the exact center of your body is in front of the CM the explosion will have no effect on you. Not even a concussive blast.

Okay you have a right to your opinion but can you explain how one faction having an over performing weapon is a fair faction difference? Since when did excellent AP mines become a faction trait? Beforehand they had piece of junk AP mines. Seemingly there is almost no middle ground.

I am afraid I cannot comprehend the nature of the issue OP and several other posters apparently have with their anti-personnel mines.

Do not get me wrong, there are quite serious problems with both Bouncing Betties and Proximity Mines like the bright blinking lights on their models still being in the game after the release of such implants as EOD and regeneration on top the already existing countermeasures of Flak armor and EMP grenades or the lack of faction flavour and gameplay difference between them.

But the complaints you present seem to point towards something else entirely: namely, a supposition of both BB and Proxies being inadequate at the tasks of killing the enemy indoors. A supposition quite easily proven wrong by anyone with any actual experience of the real in-game situations instead of purely theoretical models - for anyone using the mines in question it becomes quite obvious that just because the maximum effieciency spots might be located in slightly different places when compared with Claymores, it doesn't mean that there are actually any less of these spots to go around.

Now, if you just happen to utterly suck at getting your ap mine placement right, then there is no need to be ashamed about it - we all were there once, believe it or not, and we only got better at it by practicing. If you feel frustrated, don't have nearly enough time available to experiment personally as much as you'd like or just looking for a solid direction to start in before diving into the task, then by all means feel free to make use of the advice videos like the short, sweet and to the point one linked on the page 5 of this thread.

Alternatively, this thread here

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2...-guide-to-mine-placement.178435/#post-2583283

might help you too. It's not quite shiny-new, but the commentary provided there by various contributors holds water in the current state of the game still. Now that the updates once again allow me to take screenshots, I'll be expanding the example gallery further in the near future.

XXX

As for the matter of statistics, I'll advise you not to take them as the truth above all truths. A good example of why would be the stats for things like the default frag grenades - items that are only cosmetically different - or just plain common pool equipment like C4, NS guns, etc, etc.

I don't have an account on that nifty oracle site, but if I remember right, the last time forumside brought up such things it turned out to be that the NC frag grenade underperformed compared to the other two significantly enough to be unexplainable by 'margins of error' or any other such things. Did it mean that there was something wrong with it? Did it mean the NC frag grenade needed a 'buff'?

And that's just with the items that work 'under the hood' in the exact same way.

I am utterly surprised just by how much the Proxy is lagging behind though; the differences in the placement mechanics resulting in messed up placement shouldn't make such a huge drop. That, IMHO, is something that needs to be researched; in the meantime I'll be trying to get more screenshots of effective Proxy traps for our fellow Vanu players in case there is indeed a lack of training on their part.

Do you have this "actual experience"? Once I read this part I knew this was going to be good.

What does this actually mean? Are we talking about people who constantly bumble on top of BBs and PMs here? People who ignore the lights, ignore the forcibly closer placement, ignore the sound, and just ignore "maximum effieciency" (think you mean efficiency) spots in general?

We are not talking about some vague storage problem with BBs and PMs. The problem is the place where BBs and PMs are at maximum efficiency are subject to failure due to numerous telegraphs and the inherent weakness of the mines by design.

I'll just stop you right there. You are being misleading. You are equating what is cosmetically different to be the same as what is functionally and cosmetically different.

NC frag grenade was, besides the aesthetic differences, a carbon copy of the VS and TR one. It functioned no differently. This has absolutely no bearing on this conversation about a Claymore that functions in very different ways than the Bouncing Betty and Proximity Mines.

Yeah, that's a typo, my bad.

And, no, they really, really aren't. They are needed to be placed slightly differently then most players seemingly insist on doing, that's all. I repeat: don't just plop them in plain sight in the middle of the corridor, use the advantages of the flat profile instead. Blinking lights don't matter jack squat if the target can't see them until it's too late.

Yes, that is exactly that simple truth that will make you realise that the fault you are describing does not actually exist.

If the meaning of my words somehow doesn't come across, then please refer to the advice provided by experienced mine users amongst the playerbase I've mentioned and combine them with your own observations on players' movement in the game to make your game sessions both effective and enjoyable.

On the contrary, the silly precedent with the poor NC frag grenade provides a very nice example of why the statistics do not tell the whole picture just by themselves and should not be regarded as some sort of unassailable evidence.

I have to question if you even read my post, honestly.

You are completely discounting the obvious functional differences. There is more to it than just you have to place them slightly not in the middle of the corridor. Not even touching the obvious aesthetic differences the CM had deadlier damage, reaches out further, explodes upon detecting an enemy immediately, and allows people to safely exist behind it... There is a plethora of possibilities you are also discounting given the very different functionalities.

Yes I knew you were going to go this route the instant I saw you trying to give advice on a weapon you have demonstrated you don't actually understand. Trying to veil your L2P argument as being a helpful forum patron is really lame on top of that by the way. I don't need your help because it isn't even helpful. In fact it is borderline insulting.

Your anecdotal fallacy proves nothing except that forum goers are fickle. It does not discredit the evidence I have provided.

It's simple.

CMs are a different class of weapon. BBs and PMs are their own class.
NC, TR, and VS frag grenades are all the same class of weapon and have only aesthetic differences.

You are trying to compare the two situations like they have something to do with each other and they don't. If BBs and PMs were preforming drastically different from each other then your anecdote might have cause but that isn't the case so it doesn't.

Moreover I am not aware of what this data even looked like so I'm taking your argument about chance creating statistical disparities on faith. Did it even look like the NC frag grenade underperformed consistently for a year and never once intersected the other lines of data showing it was permanently in a state of underperforming? At what point do we say "Okay at first it could have been a fluke but now there appears to be a real causal relationship here". Hopefully at some point you would have to notice there is a problem.