New spiker changes

wut mate? Why should I compare spikers TTK to repeaters ?? They have different niche... they are different weapon (like lasher and the minigun)

Spiker has AoE damage ability and a reliable 2 burst pistol which is really acceptable for Vanu... You should also go and test how many indirect shots need to kill a soldier with AMP or repeater before you ask me to take any comparison...

It is clear to me, you are one of those vanu who want OP weapon instead of a fun and balanced weapon. You want a repeater-like TTK Vanu burst pistol with the charging AoE mechanism which will be nerfed after a time...

BTW Commisioners ideal TTK is more than 1 second and twice as much than AMP and it is still a valuable sidearm so i really dont understand your point...

It's hard to do a TTK comparison, since the Spiker's automode has a refire time delay.
But just assuming it's 167@480 then:-

Repeater TTK:- 0.56
Spiker TTK:- 0.625
Desperado:- 0.6
Commissioner:- 0.7 seconds

The burst fire-mode of the Spiker and the Desperado should have identical TTK.

Not too bad. The Spiker also has a greater long range potential cuz of the charge mode.
And by all means, if you're willing to give up your charge mode, then I'm happy with the Spiker having 0.6 TTK identical to the Desperado.

But you need to lose something to gain something. If you're not willing to do that, then you just want an OP toy, and I can stop wasting my time on you (if that's the case).

The Spiker as it is now is works but I wouldn't buy it and I still don't see the what purpose of the charged shot is.

cool, i dig where they're going with this, reminds me a bit of the prenerf/release cerb

Great work with the TTK calculations. I was going to criticize your numbers because I assumed you'd overlook some very important factors but you didn't. What we have here still leaves us with a pistol (repeater) that is 11% faster than the Spiker and the T4 AMP which is 9% faster than the Spiker. You may argue that the difference is nothing. But I'm sure you can tell the difference between an assault rifle that is 630rpm vs one that is 700rpm. That's something VS is really missing. At least the Desperado is just 7% behind.

I honestly think what we're most upset about is that all of our pistols are similar and in no way unique. TR get the Repeater and the T4 AMP. NC get the Mag Scatter, and the Desperado. Ours are all just copies of what you have. And we don't have anything unique. So they try to give it in the form of the Spiker, which is nothing like the Spiker in PS1. A pistol that is just a poor copy of the Desperado which someone already has, with a secondary mode that is going to see next to no use. So it's just 'Hey...here...pay some money to get to play with a slightly weaker clone of what the NC have"

I think the frustration you see is a mixture of these things. It's a clone. Not an equal clone. And not a clone of the better pistols in the game. While leaving nothing unique to VS in the sidearm game. Charge mode doesn't count. With the time it takes to charge it up, you could line up and get a couple headshots with the Rebel, for example.

Considering all of those in mind, here's what I would suggest:-

1) Remove the charge mode feature
2) Reduce damage
3) Add a little bit of RoF, but not enough to match 75% of current DPS
4) Add splash damage to make up for that 25%, plus some extra to match the desperado.

And you should have a pistol statistically equivalent to the Desperado with the unique feature of splash damage.
I'll let SOE figure out the right values for a balanced gun.

That would make it more similar in function to the PS1 Spiker. Something along those lines could work and would be a welcome change. Just like the Mag Scatter, which may not be your #1 go to pistol, but still feels good/unique to have. It wouldn't be bad if the Spiker were similar to a mini-lasher, with lower rate of fire, single-fire, but the ability to charge to increase splash damage/radius. I'm just stealing ideas off the original Spiker from PS1 here. Have you had a chance to look it up?

Never played PS1.

Just based these ideas on Lasher + Balance sense.

First off I have to say the burst fire mode feels really fluid and useful for a change. That said it does feel like it is balanced around the Desperado a bit too much. I wouldn't mind having a 143 @ 8m / 83 @ 60m, 2 round burst with faster RPM (probably something like 580-620) and 18 round mag to compensate but it's not really necessary at this point.

What is a big deal is that the charge mechanic has no business being on this weapon any more now that SOE moved it to a different fire mode. Most people are not going to want to switch modes and then charge the weapon. Instead just make it a high damage, slow firing semi auto shot with increased ammo consumption. Get rid of the charge mechanic all together. The animation can even be locked in the charged state for the SA mode, fire will close it and then open up again once ready to fire the next shot. It's basically a passive auto charge instead of a manual charge.

A second negative thing is that the charged shot takes 4 ammo, not a bad thing by itself but when you factor in the 14 round mag. 14/4=3.5 that leaves 2 ammo that you can not charge up because if you try it just fires a normal round charged or not. It would be nice to have an evenly divided mag / ammo consumption for the charge or my proposed SA shot.

Yes, why would you ever compare TTK with other weapons in the category, what kind of an idea is this? Tell me what the spikers niche lies - tell me where the charge mechanic would work well? That's right, not a single place in the game would this feature be good, especially since you either have a clunky charge up mechanic like we had before or what we have now, where you actually have switch firemodes. (Fund fact is, by the time it takes you to switch firemodes i can kill you).

Yes, the spiker has AOE damage, but its so small its not even worth mentioning and you arent able to do anything with the AoE damage, what so ever. Also PS2 keeps on nerfing any weapon that has splash or aoe.

Its clear to me, you are one of those people who have no clue about how weapons would actually work ingame, but aslong as its "niche or funny" its alright its garbage - great logic there. VS people want a gun like the spiker is in ps1, not what they are trying to pull off here, because as much as you _think_ its good, its not. The numbers support the fact that it isn't - and those are facts, not your subjective opinion. I like to play Vs as a faction, and when I do i want comparable weapons to what the other factions have, not a weapon with downsides because its got a gimmicky charge up that is useless.

Watch from min 7, thats whats the spiker is supposed to be.

I just did a fresh brand new video of the Spiker in 1080p, as there are apparently NONE anywhere (except the video you linked, which I also linked a few days back...which has really poor quality). I'll have it up in a few.

To clarify my post:

Either buff the charge mechanic so its like the spiker in ps1 or remove it and buff the 2x burst mechanic so its comparable to desperado atleast.

You cant have a gun with 2 inferior fire modes and then chalk that up to fine, because its "special".

Here you guys go. Just made the video:

Thanks alot, and yes its impossible to find spiker videos!

Hope you enjoyed the weapon name swap intro for those unfamiliar with the original Spiker. Haha. Kinda puts things into perspective.

I entirely agree, the charge mechanic is a balance nightmare, BBurness is trying too hard here. As it is, either it's too powerful(no charge on first shot) or it's gimmicky(charge on first shot+unchargeable while running) , and gimmicks just won't work in actual gameplay.
The people on the PTS were pretty happy with it, since it's VR training and obviously nobody's bothering you while you charge and as such it doesn't seem to bad, but having the noise+lights+slow movement is just asking for punishment in actual gameplay.

Well, charged shots currently 2 shots OHK at 30 m. 3 shots OHK at 50m.. Where repeaters TTK is at 30m and 50m ?
Oh, I see, nowhere..... Burst mode is still good in a panic situation.

Sir, teach us, how weapons should work ingame and tell us what is your ingame aim?

My ingame aim is relaxing. so i like funny things like lasher or crossbow and I like putting c4 on my cloacker friend and blow him up in an enemy nest..
Im sure you think crossbow is POS and only good for sensor darts.. No problem we are different individuals with own playingstyles, own funfactors and purposes. I very like the long range crossbow sniping i think Xbow is a brilliant weapon with its 1 second TTK. In fact, I use my knife to kill more often than my secondary arm in a panic situation...

Nobody will force you to use charged mode on spiker. Again it is a good burst pistol.
Players who looking for their own challange will find their own purpose of this mode.

I dont have to watch any vids. I exactly know how coool the PS1 spiker was.

Yess yes... bla bla. And after several months TR and NC would realize how frustrating the spiker spam in a 96+ battle. They would be terrorized under the cover not only by lashered HA-s, but every vanu infrantry with spiker....
Then Spiker would get a nerf....

You should calculate with large battle scale spamming before you mention these kind of silly things.

Ohh i see. So you want a Spiker with the same TTK like the PS1 spiker (5 sec). Its okay for me...

I would take an exact Spiker clone. With the same 3 full charged shots required to kill a heavy. For the same reason that the Commissioner is a great pistol even though it has worse TTK than most of the other pistols. For the same reason you don't bring a Lasher to a 1v1 against a good player. They all have their situational uses. This new pistol won't do anything our current pistols don't already do. Including just being a generic clone of another pistol.

Sorry but *NO*.

The Spiker has not for goal to give us a pistol that will compete with the best pistol of the game.
The Spiker has for goal to bring an unique and useable ES pistol to the VS

If you remove the charge, you destroy its uniqueness.

Also, I understand now why BBurness said that he felt like people were underestimating the charge feature.
Even actualy, the charge feature of the current live Spiker IS useful, but most of you don't seems to realize it...

If you succeed to hit with 2 charged shot at 30m on a living target with the Spiker..... I can only tell you that your target largely deserved to be killed.