let's see MAX balance this way

I'm not sure if you'r trolling, lol, but in case you didnt notice, TR's best AI weapon (onslaught) has

>>>125 dmg per bullet @min distance with 492 rpm<<<

VANU's Nebula has

>>>143 bullet damage @min distance with 426 rpm<<<

a saw has >>200<< bullet damage @min distance with >>500<< rpm.

and no stagnant CoF

now, how good does that seems to you? lol.

DEAL! I'm perfectly ok with that since beamer has less ttk than ANY AI TR and VANU MAX weapon. I'm the only one that can't see this as normal?

you are saying that 2 shotgun shots should kill an anemy, I'm fine with that, but then why TR and VANU should deal half the damage of an infantry gun?

wtf? so you are saying that since now if ten people fire at you and kill you instantly, a weapon with 10x the damage of an infantry gun and x/10 the ttk of them would be balanced?

And have less DPS than a very huge variety of LMGs, so what?

Yes, cause it is one weapon against ten. One weapon with 10x damage of infantry gun can kill 1 person instantly, then rest aim to next target and fire (note, that shotguns are very close ranges, specially on maxes). 10 guns with 1x damage can kill ten enemies withing slightly more time. Easy example - if you're even killing very stupid people, coming pointblank to shotties (10x damage), you're TTK techincally not 0, but 0 + your_ping + enemy_ping, assume them equal and 50ms. So for enemy it will be 0.1 TTK technically. Take then 10 guns with 1x damage at the same conditions, TTK for them will be 0.5 (ttk of most lmgs is about that)+ 0,1 = 0.6 TTK. So ten guns technically can overgun 4 more guys than OHK weapon after 0.6 seconds of combat. And, of course, 10 targets much harder to kill than 1.

Basically that means, that damage itself not means weapon overpowered or not.

so what what? you came up with the SAW argument, let me quote it

To compare with - that is less than headshot from Saw

you wrote it like it was absurd, and I just wrote you that TR and VANU weapons already work that way, having a dps that is pmuch half the one of the saw, made even worse by the big CoF.
you wrote that it would be absurd to equip a MAX unit with double beamer, I wrote you it would be very, very better because beamer has like 25% less TTK than onslaught/nebula
after the above statements I honestly don't think you have enough knowledge about this matter, and pls don't try to drive the discussion away from the topic calling for an eslmg war cause you clearly don't know dafuq to say.

the point remains the same, is there any reason why a NC max unit has pmuch normal shotties as AI weapons while TR and VANU have what are basically infantry guns with less than half dps? I'm not a day1-since player, did shotties worked differently back in the day? did they use to 1hko infantry at min range? did infantry guns use to have half the actual dps? I'm starting to think maybe something has been forgotten in the patch/balance process.

This is a reasonable way to look at things, but as an AI MAX indoors, I do fear an AV MAX, and as an AV MAX (except Pounders), I fear infantry--I can still kill them, but only one at a time, and mostly when they're unaware of me. Any good MAX knows to fear c4 from the rooftops, concussion grenades, and AV grenades. Heck, in a pure 1v1, a good heavy with concussion grenades probably has the advantage. If that grenade lands, all the MAX can do is blindly charge forward and hope it confuses the heavy long enough for the stun to wear off. Not that pure 1v1s are common, but still.

It's also worth pointing out that MAXes actually don't do too well without a support team. As a MAX, typical gameplay involves either shooting out of a doorway with an engi repairing you, or venturing out to get a few kills, then charging back to your engi babysitter. Without that engi, cumulative damage, or one jerk with c4, will bring you down. Typically, with no engis to repair you or medics to revive you, you won't get more than 5 kills unless you resort to hiding in the spawn room while you auto-repair. Considering how many kills you'd get with 450 nanites' worth of sticky grenades, this isn't a great return on your investment.

"Don't do too well" is relative to their mind-blowingly-overpowered state when supported.

As someone who only gets random support, choosing MAX provides nearly triple my typical K/D (+180%).

For my stats, frag grenades provide 1.5 kills per 450 nanites. MAXes provide 4.0 kills. So it's a 266% better return on investment.

Not that cost is at all relevant. The simple fact is that with balance classes, there is a lot more skillful interchange and each of my MAX lives isn't 6.2 players dying without really being able to fight back, which isn't as interesting as when I fight those players as infantry. If things were balanced, the cost would be removed.

The concept of paying nanites for a direct combat advantage is fundamental to the game, so you can't just dismiss it. There's not a combat vehicle in the game that doesn't drastically improve your K/D if you know what you're doing (note that that may exclude certain transport vehicles). The only advantages MAXes have over any vehicle is that they can go indoors and they can switch loadouts, and they trade quite a bit for these admittedly significant advantages. It's arguable that the "correct" (as in most effective) way to play is to constantly pull vehicles or MAXes, or at least spam grenades and c4, until your nanites run out. The devs seem to have deliberately designed things so that no matter the situation, you have at least one option to spend your nanites to gain a direct advantage, and MAXes just happen to be one of the indoor options.

Lol LMGs have 750 RPM max.

I'm not here to defend KPU (which I find a valid statistic). I just saw that comment about Burst weapons, which does injustice to the state of burst weapons in the game right now. Which is fine, if people realised how good they actually are right now, more would use them and SOE would have to nerf them again.

Eh, as NC max, I'd gladly trade my shotguns to full auto hands.

Just because of how annoying it is to use shotguns personally, I use Ravens more and more for everything but point hold situations.

Where'd you get that automatic shotgun? One shot is better than a pump action!
Normal automatics have 130 damage per pellet, 6 pellets per shot. Which comes down to 780 damage on a bodyshot. not a OHK.
In fact, every single shotgun pellet in the game, with the exception of the Baron, deals 130 damage per pellet. The baron deals 100 damage per pellet.
Edit: Jackhammer is 112 damage per pellet. Most NC MAX shotguns are 130 to 112 damage per pellet.
If the OP suggests that "NC MAX is OP because it can OHK". Please. At the ranges you can OHK a TR MAX can't miss either. Difference is that the TR MAX can just hold down his firing button and try to look at the enemy. An NC MAX needs to actually aim, since a miss is devastating to his ammo count and means he needs to get that perfect OHK, otherwise the TR/VS MAX simply outdamages him.
If you haven't ever noticed, but a TR/VS MAX has all the chance to OHK you as well due to latency. At such ranges that an NC MAX can OHK you a TR/VS MAX can deal enough damage to kill you before you get the first "you are hit" message.

I used the TR MAX a few times. And boy is that thing sweet. The standard version with pounder and chaingun can just mow through enemies. Unlike the NC MAX where you have to take 2 different fire rates into account, you can just hold the fire button for one, and tap the other when you think you can get the hit. Annihilates entire rooms for you. While with the NC MAX you stand a good chance of needing 2 to 4 shots, meaning you can kill 3 people in a room and then are stuck reloading, assuming you already bought another scattergun instead of going with Falcon/Scatter...

And most importantly, the pounders are accurate. It's the only thing we have that can reliably hit things at range.

It can be harsh, because the advance under cover fire options are limited, Falcons are likely your best bet (anyone that thinks they can do it with Aegis Shield soon learns otherwise ). Otherwise its just a MAX rush, which can be devestating, of course, but usually won't work outside of a pre-organised thing.

It's not "fundamental". Other competitive games do just fine without it. None of the problems a resource system fixes couldn't be solved in other ways, and resources aren't providing terribly interesting decisions at the moment.

What you call the "only advantage" of MAXes (traveling indoors) is why they make indoor play dramatically shallower. There is nothing they fear indoors, they just crush everything they counter.

I guess I'll just have to keep bashing heads in with my MAX to increase the amount of rage over this clearly shallow part of the game, because not enough players understand it yet.

(Aggressively pulling MAX/vehicle is only the "correct" way to play in terms of achieving meaningful battlefield objectives. If you don't care about being a meaningful battle participant, and don't mind being farmed, other playstyles are acceptable, but uh...why would you want that?)

so you also want to add more damage and velocity to comets for them to be balanced against TR and NC? nice to hear that

so no1 can explain me why a TR AI giant gatling gun, spacialized in killing infantry with the smallest TTK possibile for every MAX TR AI weapon, deals less damage, has far more TTK and a gigalot less accuracy than a standard infantry sidearm?

while NC has shotguns that deal same damage as...infantry shotguns