Why TR is the worst faction

SAW suffers accuracy penalty while moving and this is important. EM6/Anchor tend to be more accurate in practical use.

Starting move CoF for SAW: .5
Anchor: .35
EM6: .4

MSW-R: .35
CARV: .5

Anchor/MSW-R also have smaller hip-fire CoF. But the Anchor has a major horizontal recoil advantage over the MSW-R, as the Em6 does over the CARV while still having more damage per mag plus access to extended mags, on top of a better starting CoF as well.

As for the AC-X11, carbines don't matter much in server smashes since HA is the dominant infantry class, and carbines have access to lower TTKs than LMGs. The difference in TTK between a 167/600 LMG and a 143/750 one is much smaller than the difference between a 167/600 carbine and a 143/845 one.

So why is it that, no one really plays TR in SS? (it is mostly VS or NC)

There must be a reason for that?

Why argue that the AC-X11 made a difference then? When as you say the AC-X11 and NC6 SAW really don't.

Other than it is the never ending and always changing "arguement" that "TR are pants" dispite nothing along those line actually standing up to the remotest scrutiny and that somehow that is the NCs fault dispite their weapon generally not overperforming.

Again I'd be happy to believe that the "TR are the worst faction" if there was any real evidence to support this, but in reality it is all 6 and 2x3 (or at worst 5.8 and 2x3).... or even just plain the TR performing better!

Someone wasn't paying attention. I have had a watchful eye on server pop from the beginning. VS being so far over pop on my server is damning enough, if there wasn't something going for them people wouldn't flock to that one faction. As far as investigated, I've played plenty of VS as well.

Much as I hate bringing it up Waterson vs Matterson, Waterson was TR and did incredibly well, regardless of the end result they hammered VS Matterson the whole match giving as good as they got.

There is, they're winning. Same thing happened on Miller back when VS population dropped like a rock. People didn't quit, they joined the other factions. Same reason we see zergs with 60%+ pop. People aren't leaving, they keep rolling with it. You even see outfits doing this, using a ludacris amount of force to cap a single base.

It feels good to win, and for some it simply does not matter how they win. Otherwise we'd see more fights with equal or near equal numbers, and more fights going on at the same time.

Counter-point:Your faction can't be worst faction if my faction is the worst faction
Lets have a review of faction flavour:

NC:Guided missles, Shotguns
TR: DAKKA, Lockdown for MORE DAKKA
VS:Charging weapons(Often for exploding bullets), Heat instead of Ammo.

Firstly, why would you use the Phoenix?
1.Low DMG
2.Slow Reload
3.Doesn't reward being skilled
The first 2 points basically mean a engineer can outrepair you.The last one means NC doesn't have room to "become better"-or in other words, it doesn't change much if you get good.
I'd rather much have it replaced with something else, really.

2ndly, Shotguns.Mainly those attached to a MAX
Shotguns are for close-quarters and basically become useless at medium range where the fighting usually is.
This does mean that our MAX is better when the stars align, but 12 SOE-Meters isn't exactly what i'd call acceptable otherwise. At least give the MAX a automatic shotgun so i can put slugs on it.

I never argued the AC-X11 made a difference, again you're off in Goretzu land arguing with things you've imagined others have said. I said nothing about it having an impact in server smashes at all, you jumped to that conclusion entirely on your own.

I also have never said "it's the NC's fault", just that NC overall has the best mid-long range weapons and diversity in infantry weapon choices. It's obviously the fault of SOE/PS2 devs for failing when it comes to TR's weapon designs/mechanics/stats.

And there is evidence to support TR being the worst faction, that's pretty much the whole point of looking at the server smash choices. If TR were equal to NC or VS they'd be getting picked as often, yet they're the least popular choice for competitive matches right now. That's the best evidence you could possibly ask for, as server smashes are excluding from so many factors that muddle things on live.

I'm sure that's why most high BR all faction/competitive outfit players agree VS > NC > TR right now.

Orion > Anchor > TR has crap.

Reaver = Scythe > TR can farm infantry at least?

NC MAX > VS MAX > TR can farm infantry with a subpar AV weapon we'll pretend they're fine 'cause Pounders

Magrider vs Vanguard is a tough call, TR tanks lock themself into place roflsauce

So we finally agree that the 200 DPB "issue" is actually a non-issue then.

So we're again back to where is the TR underperforming or where is the NC overperforming in otherwise pretty well balanced system.



If that supposed evidence is just Server Smashes now, then fair enough (although I'm uncertain they really can be used in that way - for the same reason in PS1 VS where deemed horrible underpowered on the US/EU server and yet totally dominated the Asian servers with the same balance build), so what are the stats for Server Smashes? And are there cases of the same server doing better with NC or VS than when they used TR?

NC MAX is the top performing MAX by a large margin both for infantry kills and vehicle kills. NC heavily overestimates the accuracy of the VS and especially TR machine guns.

Phoenix, well, it's obvious. With multiple users you can spam them to take out vehicles behind cover. And even spamming at a single vehicle, if you're forcing a tanker to constantly repair you keep him out of the fight.

As for rewarding skill... I don't think this is a problem. All of the ES launchers add some degree of "ease of use". Lancer you don't have to judge drop or velocity as much, TRs...is awful but it has a lockon-ish thing that sucks but still reduces aim required.

The Lancer might be better, but the Phoenix is certainly not weak - it is currently bugged though I believe.

I thought I put a legit comment somewhere on page 5 or something. Might as well post something of a different nature for different effect.

DING! We have a winna'!

Do you want the Rainbow Colored Unicorn of Death or the Pristine Pumpkin of Pestilence?

I don't find that the TR principle of fire rate to be playing out in a useful way with any of the LMGs I've tried.

With real world LMGs, the principle behind them is that you don't need to be accurate because you can put a steady of cone of bullets into the target zone at a decent range.
Also, the major advantage of an LMG in the real world is that you can get so many bullets down range that you increase your chance of hitting a target if they only make themselves visible for short bursts at a time.

But for this to be true, you need to be able to use long bursts and have your rounds all hit a narrow cone to create a beaten zone that the enemy walks into and gets peppered.
I don't feel like I can really do this with TR LMGs, even when I use compensators and grips. I'm still forced to fire the weapon in very short bursts, or even in an almost rapid semi-auto way, in order to quickly connect with a target and bring it down rapidly. I don't feel like my fire rate and magazine size is giving me any advantage, other than possibly allowing me to refocus on the target quicker after each small burst. It feels more like an assault rifle than an LMG because of that.

I believe that this is the reason people prefer the other LMGs, because if you're going to be forced to fight this way then you may as well do more damage when your shots do land, or be more accurate with your bursts.


Planetside 2 doesn't really model the concept of the LMG well, when we don't have the ability to go prone, or to deploy our weapon on objects. Because one of the main limitations of an LMG is that it is too heavy and powerful to have much range or stability unless you have it resting on something.
Remember, these are called Light Machine Guns. The principle behind them is that they allow you to have the firepower that is closer to that of a heavy machine gun (Heavy machine guns generally have all the power and range of a battle rifle, but full automatic), but in a form that is mobile enough to advance and move around easily.

Exampes of this are the BAR and FG42. These weapons can't really be used in the role of a machine gun from the standing our crouching position.

Neither can the planetside 2 LMGs be used in the role of a machine gun from those positions. But we don't have any alternative positions either that allow us to increase our stability in full auto.
The closest thing we have to a weapon that functions in this role is the T7 mini-chaingun, because it allows us to sustain fire on an area to create a beaten zone that will bring down enemies if they are in it long enough.

So the PS2 LMGs end up functionally being more like rifle caliber assault rifles like the automatic M14 - That's not a weapon that benefits from firing even faster or having a larger clip, because you can't control firing it full auto anyway. Some function more like the SAW, where it's weight and smaller caliber round allow you to have more control over it when fired from a non-supported posture - but if all you ever did was fire the SAW from a standing or crouching position then you would be asking yourself why you don't just carry around an M4 or M16 because it would make your life a lot easier and give your more mobility and responsiveness.

That's the situation I feel TR LMGs are in. The weapon design doesn't allow you to really take advantage of the fire rate and clip size by giving you a means of increasing your stabilization of the weapon at the expense of mobility. So you end up wishing you either had more accuracy or damage instead of more fire rate. The fire rate might help more when firing from the hip at close quarters, but that's probably not the reason you wanted to use an LMG to begin with.

Out of the massive arsenal of weapons each faction has, a handful of specific weapons automatically makes faction better/worse than another faction in every way possible.
At least that's what I got out of it.

I agree with this and don't feel LMGs should've been a Heavy Assault weapon in the first place. If anything, they should be on a support class - engineer would be the obvious one, maybe even as an alternative to the turret.

The SAW is the only one that even comes close to feeling like an LMG as it benefits the most from being stationary and crouching which is as close as we have to prone.

Right now most of them are superior range assault rifles with more damage per mag but worse hip-fire. Granted, none of them have the low TTK of the CQC ARs, but the damage/RoF tiers they do have are still pretty strong.


Of course, PS2 tends to favor mobility in many situations, and the engi turret works mainly due to the protection it gives. I'm not sure more "LMG" LMGs would fit well without new mechanics being introduced such as suppression.

I think part of what happened to TR is that the majority of their "good weapons" were good only because they did too much damage. Striker was just a launcher that did too much damage. Fractures were just rockets that did high damage.

They nerfed the damage, and now TR has almost nothing remarkable that's ES.

As for their infantry guns, horizontal recoil has been overused as a balancer for high fire rates and/or large mag sizes. TR isn't even that great at close ranges anymore though, NC has the best SMGs and shotgun, VS and NC both have better DPS carbines and better "close range" LMGs - Orion and Anchor are just better than CARV or MSW-R. Assault Rifles are like TR's little special happy place but they can't all just play medic all the time, as much as I'd love to see that.

The faction is currently defined more by the poor accuracy / limited range than anything else.

The Prowler is the exception, and maybe Pounder/Banshee too to some degree. But the Prowler is more ranged artillery than tank anymore - which can be good in some situations but Prowlers are just too easy to kill relative to Vanguard and Magrider. Pounders are also pretty "meh" as an AV weapon since often vehicles are just camping too far away to be able to effectively judge drop/velocity to hit them. Banshee... well it's the one kind of outstanding TR farming weapon now.

Blasphemy! Initiating exterminatus protocol. Pray to your alien gods.