The Problem with Ravens

I'm NC and I approve of this message.

3+ MAXes with those things...THAT INFERNAL SOUND.

Vortex 1
Ravens 2
Fractures 3

Why would removing weapons that automaticly seek out targets and follow them, that can be spammed (and are spammed a lot) and work against anything, remove skill?
It would add skill to force MAXs to actually get and hold a line of sight with their target.

I'm not really surprised that s.o. like you sees it that way.

So your saying that an AV weapon having 19% higher VKPH (while PPA has only 15%) than its counterparts and almost double the total KPH (which indicates much better performance AI) is balanced?

..... I just posted statistics that say they're not.

Well, its more due to Ravens being guidable, allowing the user to easily hit moving targets. Falcons, however, can only really hit deployed Sunderer's at long ranges.

I never said that it could... Just that Ravens and Vortex are both effective in open areas. As for 4, I meant one-clip.

The NC are obviously designed to be really good against vehicles, and not so much against infantry compared to the TR and VS.

So where's the problem? I thought we're going for asymmetric balance right? So let the NC have their anti-tank power.

It's not like it's even game breaking. It's definitely better than the Fractures by a LONG run. And better than the Vortexes, but it's what they're obviously made to be good at. So lets leave it alone, and let the NC have anti-armor superiority here.

Here I'll post the same response I made to the other guy.

The NC are obviously designed to be really good against vehicles, and not so much against infantry compared to the TR and VS.

So where's the problem? I thought we're going for asymmetric balance right? So let the NC have their anti-tank power.

It's not like it's even game breaking. It's definitely better than the Fractures by a LONG run. And better than the Vortexes, but it's what they're obviously made to be good at. So lets leave it alone, and let the NC have anti-armor superiority here.

1 remove splash damage
2 change direct damage from 335 to 332
3 drop volume on wheeeuuuwheeeeuuuuwheeeuuu"

1+2 result in 4rockets to kill infantry, 3 to kill inf
3 removes earbleedeng effect to targets

alternativly to 1+2: leave splash, drop direct damage so summ of direct+ splash needs 4 rockets to kill regular infantry(3 for inf), tune armor resistances to changes

The only thing that the PER HOUR stats prove is that they are used MORE OFTEN, they are NOT BETTER and it's just your BIASED OPINION. What you don't take into account is the THE LACK OF RANGE AI ALTERNATIVES ON NC MAX. Do you expect us to bring shotguns to an open field fight? The moment NC gets out of base all maxes change to a medium range weapon (i.e. Ravens) BECAUSE WE HAVE TO, we don't have mutilators, cosmos, cyclers or onslaughts, we only have shotguns, shotguns and shotguns. Obviously, if the raven is THE ONLY CHOICE then all maxes at the frontline will be specced against AV, so the stats you quote are not a surprise and I'll repeat - ARE NOT AN INDICATION OF BEING BETTER.

If you like stats so much then look at the KD's (http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/items/weapons) and you'll find that TR AV are the one's doing the best.

Want less ravens in-game? Give NC maxes a choice of medium ranged AI weapon - problem solved.

Well, lack of range you say? Give VS and TR flamethrowers to maxxes that instagib all infantry up to 10 m then like mattocks do... and buff vortex against infantry so you kill infantry in one salvo too...

How about grappling hooks and fatality moves?

What bothers me about the ravens is it's ridiculous accurate range to them, it was a huge problem on the fractures so they greatly increased its drop and damage. Yet ravens (Wire guided as they are) can still hit pea sized targets with little/no gauging required.

So velocity was an issue with fractures but ravens having none to begin with is perfectly fine? The hell is that logic?

Mattocks are not OHK at 10 m, more like 2 (double shots). Go to VR test yourself.

The thing is, if you don't want to give medium range weapons to NC max then shut up about NC using ravens all the time.

Cry babies, first you cry that shotguns are too good at spitting range and don't want NC to have medium range weapons for balance sake and then complain that ravens are used on infantry - it's not even good vs infantry, but NC has no other choice but to use them at medium range.

Mattocks with slugs fills that niche to some extent.
Is it equal to the blueshifts (or mercies)? No, probably not.
Then again, Nebulas (or onslaughts) aren't equals to the Grinders or Hacksaws at CQC.

nice try but they've already been nerfed.

As a heavy NC MAX user, I'm not going to argue that Ravens aren't great, cause they are.

However, the only-option-we-have argument is valid. A lot of experienced NC MAX users, myself included, will choose Ravens over AI weapons in a lot of medium-or-flexible range situations simply because we hate being useless outside 20m (yes, slugs etc; it's still pretty sub-optimal compared to VS or TR AI). Consider also that most good TR/VS KNOW that NC MAX AI is crap outside 20m, and actively seek to engage us at longer ranges. And again, Ravens happen. Even more so, I know that I'm safer from C4 and rocket spam if I'm a long ways from enemy forces, so Ravens again.

Because we use them so much, we get better with them, and our KPH goes up with them. In addition, their long range makes them a safer option to use, we die less/need repairs less, so our KPH goes up again for that reason too.

All of this may add up to imbalance; I'm honestly not sure (and I'm not sure because I haven't spent the hundreds of hours in a VS or TR MAX suit the way I have in an NC one). But I will say this: Don't put too much weight on the KPH alone, because the Ravens constitute waaaaaay more of my time played than their TR/VS equivalent would if I played those factions similarly. If I had access to the Blueshift on my NC MAX, I'd use that SO much more than I do our shotguns (I've played enough VS to know this for a fact), and my Raven use would be lower, presumably I'd be worse with it, and its KPH would be lower.

Point of fact: Some time back, SOE implemented short-range exclusion measures to the Raven that cause it to fly weirdly away from your reticle from 0-30m or so. It returns to the reticle by about 30m and tracks properly from there, but don't think that it's perfect at all ranges, because it's designed to be unwieldy/unpredictable within those 30m (it frequently arcs nicely AROUND my target if they're within that range and on the reticle).

They are a hell lot of better than Vortex... at EVERYTHING!