167dmg/600 RoF >>> 143/652-698

NC do not need exclusive access to 167/600 on top of 200/500.

And yes the SABR-13 is an exception @ 167/600 but it's burst fire, albeit a good one and probably the best 167 tier weapon TR have.

This tier is too good to be exclusive to a single faction. It combines good time to kill with great ADS accuracy and they make for the best "all-ranges/all-rounder" weapons. The 143/652-698 weapons of VS, TR do not compare - higher horizontal recoil with worse TTK all for what? A bit better hip-fire? A slightly better moving CoF? From practice I can say it's clearly not worth it. The only 143/652 weapons that make up for their disadvantages are NS weapons for the .75 ADS.

I say make an NS 167 Carbine/AR/LMG that're near-clones of the Merc, Gauss Rifle, EM6 or Anchor. If not that, pick some of the lesser used/lower performing TR and VS guns to just replace with such stats or add new ones.

Alternatively, make some seriously accurate 143/698 weapons that actually compete. No more 2.0 - 2.225 horizontal recoil crap, bring it down to.175 - .1875. And make the drop-off more favorable. And maybe lower horizontal recoil tolerance for sustained firing since they take more bullets to kill/less effective in short bursts due to lower bullet damage. Increase vertical recoil where necessary.

And, to be fair, no recoil angles on the Carbine/LMGs. The ARs can still have a recoil angle since the Gauss Rifle does, seems ARs are intentionally a little less accurate which is fine considering the other advantages.


NC can have whatever in return for sharing - a CARV or MSW-R clone LMG. Hell even an Orion, it'd leave TR a little sore being stuck with the crap CQC LMGs but I wouldn't even care I'd be too busy using a 167/600 NS LMG or TMG-50 or a non-weaksauce pea shooter Rhino or whatever.

And if 167/600 isn't so great/ overrated or whatever, as I'm sure some NC might argue, then it shouldn't be a worry for them. Let us have them if they're not that good.

It's the perk of NC's weaponry. The VS have very controllable weaponry. The TR have their expanded clips.

I haven't found it to be overpowered at all. I usually beat out most kinds of those weapons with my T5 AMC.

Then again higher damage weapons are balanced by their bloom. 143 damage holds golden bloom standard.
Furthermore, this game still favours more bullets down the lane than stronger bullets.
However, I agree, NC should hold 167/600 as their faction exclusive. It should hold 167/632 as their faction exclusive

Agreed. 167 damage seems to be the best rounded. Too bad the Cougar is the nearest I can ever get to it, but at least it's something.

I'm not against TR and VS getting 167/600 if NC gets 143/750 weapons.

How is VS weaponry controllable compared to NC? With their higher first shot recoil? No. With their higher horizontal recoil? No. With their same vertical recoil? No.

Please enlighten me.

it's not a secret that when you switch to TR or VS suddenly all the weapon have better recoil and Cof in comparison with NC's ones.

Better recoil as in, much higher horizontal recoil, higher first shot recoils and the same vertical?

It always amazes me how many actually thinks "NC has the hardest recoil!!11" When they infact has the easiest, by far.

try to kill someone in cqc with a gauss saw from the hip,then do the same with a carv or an orion,done?

ok,now tell me what weapon was the best.

this is just an example.this is not "grass is greener" post but ,please,stop this new "nerf NC" train.

all this attempts to bring NC's trait to the other factions is creepy.

Doesnt change the fact that NC has the easiest recoil in the game out of all 3 factions.

Try using the best long range gun for CQC.

Try using orion for long range compared to SAW and tell me about your results.

Weird comparisons doesn't change the actual facts of this game.

Total recoil per second of starting assault rifles, including first shot multiplier, vertical/horizontal format

T1 Cycler: 3.78/3.15 ← | →
NC1 Gauss Rifle: 3.345/1.9125 →
Pulsar VS1: 2.944/2.676 →

Furthermore, the NC1 has a min/max vertical recoil angle of 23/25 degrees, while the Pulsar has a vertical recoil angle of 17/20 degrees. The Cycler has no vertical angle; the vertical "aspect" of its recoil is always straight up.

The Pulsar has a pretty clear advantage in total vertical recoil per second, Furthermore, while the horizontal recoil is higher the the Gauss Rifle's, that the values are pretty similar makes the overall recoil pattern more "square" and thus more intuitive to compensate for. Furthermore, even with the higher first shot multiplier, the Pulsar's first shot vertical recoil is still lower than the Gauss Rifles, .605 vs. .645, after which recoil comes in more smoothly with smaller, more frequent bursts rather than the Gauss Rifle's slower, larger, more choppy effect.

Throw in the considerably smaller vertical recoil angle and I'd say you got the better deal, at least in this comparison.

I don't know how you can say considerably smaller recoil angle, ill call it pretty damn close 23/25 vs 17/20. And vertical recoil isnt the big issue, as its relatively easy compensated for where as the important factor here is horizontal, which the NC as a faction has the least of. Don't want to get into the whole reason why this is, as its pretty clear.

Also a pretty cherry picked example, try the carbine for example, tho Id still say the pulsar is still in a worse place due to the higher tolerance aswell 0.7 vs 0.4 and more horizontal recoil. Anyhow:

solstice:
FSR: 2.8x
Angle: 14/17
Vertical: 0.25 -->
0.2/0.2

Merc:
FSR: 1.75x
Angle: 0/0
Vertical: 0.4
0.175/0.175 <-- = -->

EDIT: General side note to this thread. Im not saying NC shoots lasers that hit every single time with no expeception. It just annoys me when people complain how the NC is the "recoil" faction and VS have easily controllable weapons when infact no faction does. Far from it.

Isnt that the Carnage AR?

Or GR-22 143/800.

For LA/ENG and HA that is. There's really no solid "hipfire" guns a la Jaguar or MSW-R/Orion for the NC in that department.

It just seemed a good baseline to work with. No sinister intentions. Lemme run the math for carbines:

TRAC-5: 4.155/3.116 →
AF-19 Mercenary: 4.3/1.88 ← | →
Solstice VE3: 3.358/2.687 →

TRAC-5 has a vertical recoil angle min/max of 23/25 degrees. Solstice of 14/17 degrees. Merc has no angle. Both the AF-19 and the Solstice VE3 have identical first shot vertical recoil of 0.7 degrees.

Pretty much every carbine performs worse than its assault rifle counterpart, with the Mercenary in particular having a significant increase in vertical recoil compared to the others, nearly a full degree more. Meanwhile, the Solstice VE3 outperforms the TRAC-5 in every category, a much easier comparison to make as their horizontal recoil is in the same direction. Whether monodirectional or bidirectional horizontal recoil is "better" is a bit harder to discern, though the Mercenary has very little in either direction.

I would consider as well, the often overlooked aspect of VS automatic firing guns having no bullet drop. Especially with a rather jumpy gun like the Mercenary, having to factor in the vertical drop of the bullet on top of that past close range is no mean feat. With the VS, you simply keep your crosshair on the same vertical level as the target and that's where your shots go. Whether this is worth having more horizontal lead, both due to horizontal recoil tendencies and generally slower projectile speeds, I don't know enough to pass judgement on, but it seems to work for many people.

167/600 and 143/698 share same DPS but this game favors mid damage / higher RoF

from AF-19 Mercenary to NS-11C - its like fire and ice

How about we try and keep some faction differences?