c4/mines need a nerf

You do realize that by doing this nothing would change? Mines are fine where they are right now.

in PS1 2 engies would have a literal mine field that CR5's would clear via EMP strike, it added lots of meta game and it gave players a way to defend bases without actually being there. The mines didn't guarantee a kill but they deterred would be attackers

NO. DONT NERF C4 anymore.
Blast radius reduced
Damage reduced
Time delay added between dropping and blowing up.
Most likely forgetting some of the past Nerfs.

Seriously NUT UP OR SHUT UP.
All you vehicle jockeys just learn to look. or hey even better Yet use the damn implant. If you still run over mines, and die to C4 fairies then its you that is the problem not the Game mechanics.

yes please do,
A rocket causes minimal damage to its inteded target whilst causing instant death to infantry. How many rockets can my vanguard take to the front? Answer is alot more than 2.
AV maxs are far less reliable that their AI counterpart, id much much much rather have dual hacksaws that dual falcons when entering a room full of enemies, am i wrong?
AV mana, same thing as above, the AI version is way better for doing its job, supressing troops, also the AI mana turret cannot deal damage to tanks, again a choice is made, supress hordes of infantry or shoot at tanks. While the AV can be used against troops its far from as good as the AI one.
AV grenades are a direct upgrade to the normal frag, defo agree here. The only thing is, HA is the only class that can use them, unlike c4.
Lolpods are a part of the ESF '1 loadout to meet all' mantra. It is something ive voiced a similar opinion about to what i think of c4, too versatile. Although id argue hornets are better for AV.
Noseguns are pretty rubbish against tanks, 1 engi can easily out rep a nosegun. Defo better, alot better, at A2A than A2G. The only reason these seem bad is the combination of nosegun/pods and the constant stream of damage that they can do combined.
Lib weapons have been specialized recently, the duster for example is absolute crap against tanks, dalton rubbish against troops (no splash) same with shredder - good for tanks / AA not so good for infantry since it has no splash.
Tank cannons are AI / AV or HEAT, yes they damage stuff but stand off against a AV/AV MBT with a AI/AI one and see what happens.
Sory but most tank secondaries is an exageration, saron takes 3 or even 4 shots to kill a single troop, enforcer takes 2, vulcan is just LOL outside of 10m. On the other side the kolbalt cant damage tanks, the walker cannot aim down, the basilisk is outclassed by the halberd in every way. The halberd is the only one that can be used reliably for both AI and AV, but even them id argue a kolbalt would kill troops easier and an ES AV secondary would kill tanks easier, take the saron for example, deadly up close with its mag dump. To round tank secondaries off, flak armour will protect you against direct hits from them, so there is a counter, a thought going into attacking vehicles, no such thought can be made to defend against c4.

All the things youve listed have a specialisation, a target thats more easily defeated than other targets, c4 just damages all stuff the same way, and pretty much insta kills everything in the game, troops, maxs, lightnings, mbts, harrasers, valkery, esf, flash, lib,(?, not sure after all its nerfs/buffs), equip terms, base turrets. The only things it cant insta kill are Galaxy and Sundy. This combined with the fact that everyone bar infils and maxs can have it permanetly on the ready makes it too versatile imo.

Ill say again for clarity to anyone reading:
Ive no problem with the damage c4 does, or how easy it is to use (its easy, no1 will convince me its not).
I just think its too versatile and is the go-to in order to kill anything quickly.

Holy crap didn't think people would agree with me. But still. c4 requires skill to use. Tank mines are already stupidly up bc they show above ground. There should be a certification "minesweeper" that the flash can get to clear the way. 250 xp for each mine sensed and destoryed.

It takes 3 mines.

Mines are fine; C4 maybe a tad much since a class that can fly above you can carry it but otherwise ok. Ive had a fair share of deaths to C4 but the the fun factor in using it outweighs the suck factor of having it used against you.

In all, I guess Im perfectly ok with C4 and mines where they are now.

C4's specialization? Targets that don't move for long periods of time. It's absolutely useless against moving targets in case you haven't noticed. It's also useless against anything that isn't within hugging distance. So there's two downsides unique to C4, which I guess according to you is all it takes to lump it in with all the other overly versatile weapons in the game.

To sum up, C4 can instagib absolutely anything in the game so long as it's sitting right in front of you, not moving and not shooting back. Next time you play the game I want you to pay attention to how often this happens vs all the times it doesn't happen.

there should be a stat somewhere .. I know there is one in game, for percentage of accuracy (meaning actually hitting / killing ) with mines. There should be one for C-4. If anyone has a 20% accuracy with C-4, that means they fail 4 out of 5 times..
Anyone have access to official stats on this?

i never said PS2 had more depth, but PS1 mines just don't work in an entirely different paced game
i also played PS1, i know what spitfire turrets are, and that they could be damn annoying, but in a fast-paced game like PS2, where you can just galdrop everywhere and spawnbeacons can drop you in the middle of a base in under a minute after dying, they would be circumvented extremely easy, and not the defense powerhouse they used to be in PS1

automated base turrets are a totally different story than the power of c4 etc. they would actually make bases worth defending, but this would need the NTUs and ANTs back, which will happen never i am afraid with the speed content (read: actual content, not weapons) is made, guess how long the devs need for server-controlled turrets?

right now, being able to place 25 mines that can not stack and only harm vehicles, people would just send a mineguard sundy with two or three repair sundys behind them in, and thats it, the whole minefield gone, and guess who wont get any certs? the engis placing these minefields for maybe an hour or so

and for c4, it NEEDS to have the power to destroy a tank, simply because if it wouldn't have this power, it wouldn't remotely be worth the resources you need to put into it

That bit you quoted wasn't directed at you, sorry for the misunderstanding.

This one has his stuff together.

On the topic of mines. I don't believe they need to be buffed or nerfed. But changed a bit. Maybe give us double the amount we have now across the board (so each rank gives double what it normally does). And half the damage. Let the things stack like they do now.

What this does is let the engineer decide how he wants his mines to go. He can double them up for a instant kill. Spread them out over an area to slow down a column. Or put them EVERYWHERE so people are getting skittish. But this way the things aren't being nerfed or buffed, just given variety.

For C4.. these don't need to change. Anyone who gets close enough deserves the kill. And as Zombo said, the pace of the game is so quick that they need to be destructive. I could handle a nanite cost increase to keep their spammy nature down, but no more then 100 nanites from 75. Remember any nanite cost increase is a buff to All Access Members, so bump that up as much as you all wish

As for the topic of Medics carrying C4, what else are they going to carry? I mean I don't believe there is a pandemic of medics slaying tanks out there. As for it not being logical, how about you go to www.goarmy.com and sign up, become a combat life saver as a combat engineer or infantryman, and then come back and say its not 'logical'.

Even I know the Medic is intended as a 'Medium Assault' class. Not an elven priest in robes flinging holy healing spells from the back. Its got an Assault Rifle, and a mean way of killing others through attrition, very similarly to how a Heavy Assault does it. So the C4 bricks fit.

How come flak and G2A launchers are just a "deterrent" to air but one person's C4 loadout is instant death to a tank?

there is about 350m of difference between these things, maybe you can find it?

I'm genuinely curious why the paradigm for the vehicle that has a much easier time extricating itself from bad situations is deterrence but the one that's slower and stuck on the ground and harder to pull and tied to a tech plant is destruction. Particularly when so many tank counters simply don't render.

But then tank HE pretty much has to not exist for this issue to be addressed or it would overpower MBTs. I'm cool with that though. Getting rid of HE I mean.

Mines and C4 on their current incarnation encourage **** gameplay. same way the drop pods encouraged bad gameplay... in the old days when a sunderer was spotted people would just redeploy and drop as engi/light/heavy and c4 burst the sunderer. currently a similar trend is happening where, lights will fly to the sunderer drop c4, get gibbed by defenders, but wont release. so after 5 - 6 lights there's about 7 c4 bricks on the sunderer and defenders have no way of defusing (something that's outright ********) and the sunderer will get gibbed by a spark. same thing happens with mines, but its even worse then, because the engis can just redeploy. (mines stay)

definitely not fun gameplay for the attackers, and for the defenders.

a good change would be to make explosives triggered by other explosives deal a fraction of their base damage, and also allow c4 to be defused like mines can.


and mines are a bad by design, the idea of the mines is simple, you move over it, it deals damage. but that creates a balance problem. first, how easy to spot should they be? and second, how punishing should it be not to see them?

that problem simply cant be solved, either mines are too strong, or they are completely useless. theres no way to balance that, and the reason is simple, the main component of mines is their damage, and that's what should change. mines should deal a minimum amount of damage, but they should also incapacitate the vehicle for a short moment.

if damage is not the main component then mines can easily be made invisible, unless detected by infantry by moving VERY close. this way the random effect of a mine wont be a random kill, that will happen 1 out of 10 times you mine a place, but a very real possibility of losing the vehicle for the driver. all the while encouraging combined arms, and allowing defenders a way of DELAYING an armor zerg between bases. win/win situation.

How much do those rockets cost to fire?

C4 disappears at death.

They should add new mines that do less damage but you can carry and place up to 15 fully certed. Keep the mines we got now too but you can't have both types of mines out.

only if they cant be stacked in the same place, we have enough mine stacking.