[Suggestion] Make Phoenix rockets immune to small arms fire.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by CompletelyDeadCoyote, Aug 31, 2014.

  1. DevDevBooday

    Thats why it also has KPH silly buns. So you know how often it kills.

    Them being bad at killing infantry does not mean that it should be disregarded.
  2. TheAnnoyingGunner

    As exclusive NC player, I am still rather happy with our MBT. It does perform well in tank fights, assumed it is used the right way (mostly as howlitzer). At close range we are cannon fodder to the Prowlers double main cannon or the maneuverability of the Magriders, For the last one, provided they use they take advantage of their abilities (which needs situational awareness and is therefore spontaneous). If I would buff any MBT (except that awful PPA gunner cannon, omg) then I would buff the Magrider, on basis of my experience.

    Dumbfire is fire + [use]. Then you will see your rocket going down after a few meters like it had almost no propulsion at all. Dumbfire, you wanted it, use it. I don't know how the people do it on other servers, but on Kobalt (former Ceres) to my knowledge the NC Outfits were too stupid to use the Pheonix in an effective fashion. If you would gather about 6 people armed with this RPG, which are targeting a single tank, they are OP, but this happens very rarely. They could even bulldoze a whole tank zerg. I think we have the most OP rocket laucher in the game, and I have seen DORA's actions on hills (Ceres, DORA = VS). Sadly, most of our NC brethren don't get their job done, but that's no news at all, aren't they? But hell, in which faction it doesn't work that way....
  3. Revanmug

    Actually, looking at those same stats, the lancer is already better in KPH and VKPH and that's with the 2 days of mass 1 shooting people with a higher velocity Phoenix. The biggest difference is that the Phoenix player's stats are much fluctuating than the lancer (because of said issue).

    Maybe... read those stats?
  4. Xasapis

    The occurrence of having the rocket shot down before impact or miss is so small, that I would say that leave as is or making the rocket immune makes little to no difference either way.
  5. CompletelyDeadCoyote

    I get my rocket shoted down 10% of the time. Mostly - right on start, by friendly fire, when i'm firing from a crowded area. Wich is very dumb.

    Only if there's no one to shoot them down. Thankfuly, 99% of the time there's no one. But i've seen once as ~10 heavies were trying to focuss-fire a sunderer only to be stopped by three engies, that were shooting rockets down. Damage from one or two rocket, that managed to get to sunderer was quickly undone. We managed to win only when everyone took shrikes and decimators and simply bombarded incoming enemy infantry to get cover for our own, so they coul get up close and shoot everyone.
  6. TheAnnoyingGunner

    And this is teamplay, you cannot punish teamplay. But I think the most important are the number of certain incidents, and arranged teamplay is quite seldomly encountered... At every side. Pity.
  7. DevDevBooday

    This wasnt argueing whether the Lancer is good or not. This was arguing the Phoenix is already too good for a buff.
    Yeah KPH for Lancer is pretty good. Nice spot. Have a cookie.

    As I also said above, unless flares or smoke or even cover works against the Phoenix, they will never remove the ability to shoot it down. Because its the ONLY defence.
    Its like arguing that flares shouldnt affect the Striker. Its ridiculous and unrealistic.
  8. Goretzu


    I don't think they should remove the ability to have it shot down.

    But it is actually reasonably easy to do, any spammy vechile secondary weapon should be able to do it very easily.

    The Pheonix user can somewhat counter it by taking more oblique routes into the target, but then if they couldn't do that some vehicles with decent gunners would be basically immune to Pheonixes.


    A lot of people don't bother to try to shot down Phoenixes, but of those that do the success rate is pretty high (because you only really need 1 hit) as it is pretty easy to do, certainly in the standard Pheonix flight pattern.
  9. axiom537


    Any rocket launcher used in groups creates the same effect. If anything because of the narrow field of view while in camera mode actually makes it more difficult with the Phoenix then other launchers. NC outfits are not too stupid, it is just the simple fact that the Phoenix is not a very versatile weapon platform, so NC generally will not equip the Phoenix in any situation other then from a spawn room, and unlike the other launchers its much more difficult to actually see what the other users are targeting.

    You can't compare Dora(VS) on a hill top using Lancers vs NC on the same hill top using Phoenix. The Phoenix does not have the range or speed to have the same effect and it will be worthless vs any Air that would happen upon them, while the VS will just focus fire their lancers on the Air and demolish it. Besides they would be sniper bait for the 5 seconds while in camera mode.

    My outfit sets up on hill tops all the time, but we would never use the phoenix, because it would be worthless in that situation, as it is in most situations, thus the request for a dumb fire mode. NC on a hill top would be and are much better off with an AV turret or group of lock-on launchers, using the phoenix like that just doesn't work well, other wise it would happen.
  10. Revanmug

    wat
  11. DevDevBooday

    The Phoenix is too good for a buff as it is leagues ahead of the other launchers. Problem?
  12. Serialkillerwhale

    It isn't.

    Problem?
  13. Revanmug

    But the lancer is ahead of the phoenix in KPH (even with the 2 days of 1 shooting infantry) and VKPH (important stats for RL).

    So, how can it be " leagues ahead of the other launchers" when the other ES launcher is ahead of it?
  14. DevDevBooday

    Because of KPU, KPH is better which is to be expected of a hitscan weapon. Problem is their users keep dying because they actually need to have LoS.
    If the Phoenix wasnt getting kills because they get shot down (eg low KPU) then sure. remove it.
    Sniper rifles also have quite low KPHs compared to say shotguns or assault rifles but that doesnt mean AT ALL they need a buff. Snipers, like the Phoenix operate from safety. Thats what you are buying with the Phoenix. Lancer KPH is higher but you actually need to risk yourself, its a general trend that higher risk higher DPS weapons have higher KPH. The problem is the Lancer user dies alot. Now if the Lancer was truly better, then its KPU would also be up because the Lancer users are consistently dominating. But alas. When that NC heavy gets a 20 kill streak over a period of time with his Phoenix from inside the spawn room, he adds to this KPU difference.
    Its assymetry.
    When we can shoot you in the head every time you want to fire the Phoenix, THEN there is no need for shooting down your rockets.
  15. Keiichi58

    No - Just no... The gripe fest over it will still suck because people will say "Why are you using an AV weapon to snipe infantry?" We did this back in Planetside 1 just to annoy the crap out of infantry... When they announced this, I immediately pointed out, MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T 1 SHOT INFANTRY... And they did it anyways, and the fuss it made... It doesn't need to be in the game.
  16. Xebov

    You missunderstood something here. The ability to shoot down the rocket with every source, including small arms, was never tehre to make up for its ability to kill infantry. Its there to compensate for the ability to fire it from complete cover.
  17. TheAnnoyingGunner

    I never made this comparison. I simply pointed out that a weapon, which has been stamped as crap from the very first day, can shine in the right conditions and these conditions may require some thought and teamplay.

    Creativity is scarce these days in Planetside 2... Again, you can exit the rockets remote control by hitting your >use< button, voilá, dumb fire (with a bit of eye strain). When your outfit is done sitting on a rock, you may want to try another approach, get a minimum of 6 Pheonix "pilots" together, place them behind a small hill on an ammo pack and then pop the enemies whole tank zerg without the possibility for any retaliation. Well, you should coordinate your targets and firing time.
    Don't try to adjust the weapon to your playstyle, adjust your playstyle to your weapon.
  18. axiom537


    You did make the comparison;

    You are completely ignorant of how the Phoenix functions in a practical sense and how and where the phoenix is useful, as is evident in the above comparison you made and your comment about exiting the camera view.

    There is a reason you do not see NC group up and use the Phoenix in coordination and that is do to the way it functions (camera view) creates a tunnel vision for the users, therefore they do not see what the other users are targeting. This in conjunction with the fact that the Phoenix is extremely situational, means that these types of focus firing events do not naturally occur and when they do, they generally require Teamspeak and a squad leader putting way points on the map for targets.

    Well if I can simply hit my 'USE' button and voila have a dumbfire rocket, then why all the push back for my request for the Phoenix to have a dumb fire mode, if according to you that function already exists?

    The fact of the matter is you have no idea what you are talking about and more then likely have never used the phoenix in a practical sense, ie on the battlefield, that is why you are making the suggestions & comparisons you are. Otherwise you would know that the moment you leave camera mode the Phoenix rocket takes a nose dive into the ground 10m later. Or if you use the Phoenix on a hill top the odds are you will not have enough range to hit much, or you will be sniper bait as your character is frozen for up to 5 sec, or you will attract an ESF and since the Phoenix is next to useless vs Air you will get wiped...
  19. TheAnnoyingGunner

    You really have to get that stick out of your *** and stop complaining how the Pheonix is useless when camping a mountain (and sure, we can play the blame game on this matter for the next 20 posts, but again, just because you interpret that I would have suggested that nonsense doesn't make the words magically appear in my posting).
    Of course it is a situational weapon, I thought we had clarified this already... But so are the Decimator, the Lancer, Shotguns, Dalton, etc. You cannot buff the Pheonix anymore, just because the NC outfits lack proper teamplay and/or are just too narrow minded to use the tools they are given effectively.
    You don't use the Pheonix on short range, you don't use it on long range, you don't use it on fast moving targets, you don't use it while standing out in the open. But if you have picked a safe position and bring along some friends, whose brainfunctionality exceeds their basic human needs, you can easily eradicate enemy sunderers and camping tanks.

    I made my point and I don't feel the need to further discuss this topic. The Pheonix is a dedicated teamplay weapon, not a loner weapon.
  20. axiom537

    The exact point I & everyone asking for a little more flexibility with the Phoenix is that it is extremely situation, especially in comparison to the other Rocket Launchers especially other ESRL's after the Striker is altered. That has been our point from the very beginning it is too situational and even in those situations it excels in, it does not excel enough to warrant that limit.

    I am glad you are done with this conversation, because you really have no practical experience with the Phoenix from which to make any knowledgeable arguments. The fact you think it already has a "Dumb fire mode" Yet, say it we want to buff the Phoenix by giving it a dumbfire mode is puzzling or that it is a dedicated teamplay weapon and not a loner weapon, when the opposite is true.