How do I explain Vanu aren't OP?

Allllmost got me.
No way man you're missing out with the lack of drop on these softball projectiles, truly the best trait that doesn't get shared.

Allow me to use your own statement another way so we can realize how presumptive it is.

"Tank differences differences really only matter to top-tier tankers, that is to say not 99.9% of the playerbase."
"Infantry weapon differences really only matter to top-tier infantry, that is to say not 99.9% of the playerbase."

I sound pretty presumptive don't I? That is because ESF differences matter to EVERYONE who uses an ESF regardless of skill level.
Your statement is grossly wrong and generalizing. The Scythe is the top tier ESF for most dogfights.
Regardless Sythe profile + Saron makes the scythe the best ESF for front facing fights, which is how many ESF fights go down unless you are ALWAYS ganking which is where the Reaver performs better.
So unless you are always ganking from behind you are at a disadvantage to the small profile and super accurate scythe.

And this is why you're br84 and your stats are those of a br10

all of the TR stuff is directly geared toward farming. tank lockdown, MAX lockdown, MCG. all of their stuff is focused on parking in one place and spamming shots, and that is why, if it can be camped TR will camp it.

dude i run my LASHER out of ammo on a fairly regular basis. if you are in heavy combat, i don't care how many bullets you have, more is always better.

Your friends are bad players. I have no problem fragging Vanu with my NC/TR char.

Empahsis on:
-Bullet Drop (lack therof)
Simply doesent matter as soon you get used to your weapons.

-Lancer
Is a Teamplay weapon, if you use the phoenix in teamplay it is much more powerfull only the striker is a little bit broken ;-)

-Magrider mobility (+PPA spam)
The magrider loses every direct 1 v 1 against the other tanks, if you know your enemy you can often avoid to be flanked by a magrider.
Stay inside a house or tank/sunderer, and PPA doesn´ t matter.

-Orion
(Idk orion = the heavy weapon of the VS?)
50 shots, amazing accurate etc. BUT 50 shots in big battle is a disadvantedge because the DPS drops in 1 v 1 it is stronger.
The NC have 100 shots with the highest dmg (200) so they have the highest dmg per MAGAZIN.
The TR have 100 shots with 143 dmg and higher rate of fire, and a fast reload so they have the HIGHEST DPS in longer fire.

You just need to know where YOUR weapon is the best choice. And YES farming 1 v 1 with a orion is probably the most fun but global, the weapon is not really imbalanced. (like the jackhammer, in a small room.... but this doesn´t means it is really op)


-Scythe (vs oher ESF's)
From above the skythe have the BIGGEST of all shapes, so fight in a team and somebody can always hit the BIG side of the skythe, fight alone vs a skilled skythe pilot, and maby you are in truble..... (but still can win this)

-Splash Damage (I assume lasher spam from great distances in big fights)
Jep, in big fights the lasher is a nice farming weapon.

Don't bother. I've seen people compaine that the "VS Liberators are OP".. yes that right, the VS Common pool vehicle is OP.....

Really just sit back, keep taking the nurfs and them Keep killing them untill we force them to nurf all the common pool items as well since we keep killing with em.

I guess thats why the liberator got the big nerf last patch .
Because the VS liberator was 2 imbalanced.... but why the TR liberator got a nerf?

I'm a little unclear on this, but it seems to me like the obvious course of action would be to tell them that the people who told them vanu were OP were idiots and just leave it at that. You don't need to argue against something that an argument was never put forward for, that's just a waste of time.

If you really wanted an argument I guess you could just highlight the sheer idiocy of making a general statement about a faction, as though it can be quantified in terms of "better" or "worse" when they're all being played by the same people and there's literally no difference in their core ability. It makes about as much sense as splitting any online community randomly and suggesting that one side is inherently OP.

Wow. I didn't expect an obvious joke post to garner a personal attack from some random guy.

I feel like people are overestimating how easy it is to actually get underneath or above a decent scythe pilot (probably easiest on a racer reaver popping afterburners), but 1v1's scythes (in pilots of equal skill) win period. Point and click easy mode gun with a 1pixel forward profile is gg if the pilot knows what he is doing. Top ESF pilots all say the same things, that the mossie is the weakest ESF, reaver has burst capability and scythe is just OP.

Cause your dual-fire-camp-hilltops-monster tanks dont need PPA to farm infantry with impunity from a mountaintop, with your fast fireing railguns of doom?

Get underneath a Scythe pilot? Jeez you remind me of that sl ut in "Topgun" (besides whats wrong with lib-pilots? ;,()

I won't say that VS is OP, but hahaha, holy ****. "Professional gamemakers". Oh my god. You can't be serious.

Not to mention the weapons where no bullet drop WAS beneficial don't even have the no bullet drop trait, We don't even get to use our faction trait where it damn counts, Isn't that some crap?

SOE should be challenged to bring in a neutral, unbiased third party that has no real experience with PS2, but is experienced at shooter gaming and games with vehicle play. I'd say MMOFPS play experience but yea...if it can't be someone with PS2 experience, that doesn't leave many eligible candidates.

So anyway, find this unbiased, third party expert and have them audit/arbitrate the balance of this game. Have them issue an opinion on the balance between empires. And while we're at it, have them issue an opinion on the cheesiness of the way revives and repairs are implemented.

Hello there. I kind of had to check if this thread was necroed and in my surprise it was not. Here are my counter points:

• VS has been traditionally the least populated faction in the game (with small periods where they've been second lowest). Considering that people tend to flock to what they perceive either easier or more powerful, it is surprising that they avoid VS.
  
  
• Bullet drop is irrelevant in this game. Most long range infantry fights happen in ranges of lower to 75m and closer to 50m (to give you a distance marker, in those helipad bases, the two garage entrances are 50m apart from each other). In those distances the cone of fire spread inherited with each weapon plays a much bigger part in hitting a target and is one of the reasons NC weapons are better suited for longer range ADS engagements.
  Sniper rifles have identical stats across all empires.
  The Magrider has the worst bullet drop main cannon compared to the other two empires (for other reasons).
  The only way to have a noticeable impact in bullet drop is to use suppressors on weapons and then try to engage people at long range. Thing though, you're doing it wrong, both because suppressors dimish damage and bullet speed of weapons at range and you're off the minimap marker range anyway for the suppressor to be useful (kind of like using a shotgun in a long range fight).
  
  
• Lancer is now in a good spot after been buffed twice when it first introduced due to how horribly was underperforming. Looking at the stats alone, it should be a weapon that would outperform any other empire specific launcher. In practice, the majority of users have trouble putting it into practical use. Only a small minority of very organised squads can use it to counter vehicle hordes, due to how proactive you need to be with creating an AV nest. In the majority of cases the goto launcher is the NS Decimator.
  
  
• PPA is getting into a series of nerfs while the other empire specific AI weapons a series of buffs, so the tip of the balance remains to be seen. In the end, VS may end up with another ZOE, aka the most useless of the empire specific abilities.
  Now regarding the Magrider. That thing is slow. No, really, it is. Here is a pro tip. In all the tank engagements that you actually have a chance to kill your enemy (which will happen in 150m or less), the Magrider can not strafe out of a shot directed into it's center mass, it is just too slow for that.
  Here's also the thing about the Magrider. It has the weakest relative armor of the three. In other words, the other two tanks need less shots to kill the Magrider than the Magrider needs to kill them. An anchored Prowler that is shooting a Magrider in the front will kill faster a Magrider shooting the Prowler at it's rear (assuming all shots connect). Running with the Magrider as an experienced driver is running with a massive disadvantage. You need to force the Prowler to miss one double shot (driver and gunner) by using cover, because mobility won't cut it with above average tankers. Against Vanguards it's even worse, since you need to make them miss three double shots.
  
  
• I never liked the Orion. My personal preference would either be the SVA-88 or the NS-15M. The reason you get the most complains about the starter LMGs (SAW, Orion and CARV) is because they will die more from them since, well, they are the starter LMGs so most people will use them. And of course, whatever kills us is obviously OP, even if the Orion and the Carv are almost identical.
  
  
• I will not comment on scythes, I'll let some actual pilots do the talking. Generally speaking though, scythes are the hardest ESFs to start as a new pilot due to lack of any visual queues that help with maneuvering. It is a recurring trend of a lot of the VS stuff, that require experienced hands to actually shine and ruin that joke that VS are the easy faction.
  
  
• Lasher is a very specialised weapon that only really shines in big fights. In small squad based fights, you are in a huge disadvantage with it and will lose all encounters with somebody using any kind of accurate weapon and will not panic from the flashing lights. The splash damage is so small, it's negligible and the only real usage is keeping the shields from regenerating. Beyond that, as a Lasher user you get a lot of assists but not many kills and you use a weapon that looks flashy, but doesn't pack nowhere near the punch the other two empire specific heavy weapons do.

Bottom line, let your friends join the VS for a week and see if they feel the grass is actually greener once it is over.

Have them play as Vanu for a week; problem solved.

My alt is NC, and if you´re NC your Vanguard is in 8/10 on a full AP setup. So whenever I see a PPA Magrider I rejoice. When I´m on VS and got my Magrider out I try to stay far away from enemy armor even when running full AP myself. You simply don´t stand a chance in a fair fight against either VG´s or Prowlers. Your only hope are hit and run tactics and distance, and those are heavily dependant on the terrain you´re in.
So yeah, PPA Magriders are only an issue for the lemmings and other peasants who keep running that same route out of an already camped spawn, over and over and over again!