The problem with nerfing Redeployside

Know you would have to pick the fights. Not just "lol redeploy redeploy".

That' is the main strategy of DA for what i've seen.

Sincerely i've never seen a sunderer/Gal of DA since the merge.

Like, i just pointed that because for what i see that's a strategy that DA use. And i feel that you don't want to rethink the way you play the game.

Ooookay.So why do we need galaxys and sunderers and any infantry carriers at all? Just put a spawn beacon(xyz) on a flash and ta-da ,mobile deploy thing.

Regarding those saying you can redeploy anywhere within ten seconds. This is simply not true. And if anything, it is a bit hit and miss. Sometimes you can travel from one side of the map in a single redeploy, and at other times you have to make several hops to get to the base you think you need to be at. Still not a long time, I know, but it isn't ten seconds. It takes ten seconds to redeploy and then a five second cool down. Times that by the number of times you need to get from A to B and you can literally miss out on the defence/attack of a smaller base.

But, I ain't complaining. Just pointing out that ten seconds it not true.

Did I mention that I didn't think the ten seconds thing is not true?

Another important point to consider is this: vehicle physics are awful. Making the game rely upon vehicles that flip for no reason, or catch on invisible objects is not a fun idea. Forcing the game to rely on one of the most broken mechanics in the game is a surefire way to make people quit. Don't get me wrong, as a PL, I use very aggressive galaxy play to move around--often getting us on point faster than we would by redeploying and charging by using good gal micro. But ground vehicles are bouncier than a jello factory, and galaxies are fragile (and have geometry that catches things for no reason), so vehicle use gets expensive, even with the current generous resource system (gals cost 540 in the new system btw). Additionally, it requires a good PL and responsive (usually private) platoon--and our galaxies only use squad deploy, we're never on thr tround.

A lot of pubbies already take way too long to get moving, which screws over the entire faction--this can only slow them down more. I'm all for adjustments to redeploy, but face the facts: whatever system you use to try to constrain people is easily exploited and abused by good outfits. If you make things harder on average, you're mostly making life harder for players not abusing the current system.

I'm all for even fights, but I also want troop positioning to matter or it means again: we may as well all just play the latest Battlefield.

Step 1: Grab a Scythe
Step 2: Fly to the damn base
Step 3: Drop a beacon.

That's how hard it would be for DA lol (and it's how we do it already unless there's a good redeploy option), the problem isn't us, the problem is the game will suck because it will be zergs ghostcapping.

So be it. Althought i've posted many times that to fix the redeploy you need to change,imo remove, the beacon system.


A zerg never ghostcap.

A zerg capture a empty base because ppl allow to.
It's a zerg they move slowly from base to base. If you see it you can go stop them. If you don't go it's your fault.

Saying that a zerg ghostcapped something is a stupid as saying a elephant Stealthily runned over someone. It's not that the person didn't see the Elephant. it's that the person was too scared to act.

If DA is scared of the zerg it's not a problame to the devs to fix.

A pop limit will never really work because of squad leader deploys and beacons. I know what you mean with nerfing redeploy side, but can you at least admit that attacking a base has become very hard because of this (especially during an alert)?

What is needed IMO is base redesign. Moving the spawn room further away from the capture point, and larger sunderer garages with defensive layouts to allow for easier defence. Some of hossins bases already have this. They just need to bring some of their designs back to Indar / esamir / amerish.

Well said OP!

I think that a good assault thrives on galaxy drops, sunderer surrounds (with backups in reserve) and armor to protect sundies. It's actually a massive undertaking logistically to attack a base against a large defense force. In this regard, I think logistics already play a vital role in the game. We just don't talk about it very much when the topic of redeployment comes up these days.

I really don't think people realize this. Redeployment is a mechanic that constantly and instantly helps equalize pops. It lets players in a zerg disperse to other lanes, and it lets players spawn in to counter a zerg that is ghost capping. If we are pushing outfits and platoons to use gals and sunderers instead of redeploy, then any smart PL will intentionally hellzerg a base they attack - because reinforcements won't come easily, and you will need to live off of your own men to secure the base from incoming gal drop reinforcements. In a similar fashion, if I am leading a platoon that needs to defend a base, I'm going to make sure I bring double the numbers of the attackers before I gal drop, because I won't be getting any other reinforcements.

With less refined tools to move troops around, people will start bringing sledgehammers to every fight. As you said - ghostcapping zergs.

And for exhibit A, I present: The Enclave, back when "logistics mattered"



The prototypical example of bringing a sledgehammer to end a fight. And who could blame them - would you bring less manpower than needed to win if you were going through the effort of regrouping at the WG and pulling gals? The war on Redeployside conveniently forgets how things used to be done in this game.

Why can't we just use real logistics and strategy when moving LARGE GROUPS from one place to another? This will give continents a sense of scale, and vastness. Right now every cont feels like a COD map, but smaller since you can literally go where you want whenever, with minimal restrictions

This sums it up. The current redeploy system allows a lot of solo/small group players to form into larger forces and respond to attacks simply by being able to spawn at a base at the same time. Remove the ability to spawn in, and those players are never going to make it to that base, and the attackers get to simulate baking cookies while they watch the timer tick down in an empty base.

So you show a video of Buzz, probably one of the most effective platoon/outfit leads to ever play the game, organizing a massive gal drop to take a tech plant, which was about to be capped by the enemy, as proof that limiting Redeployside is a bad thing?

That actually was using logistics appropriately, but I guess you would you rather have all 8 of those squads magically appearing at the tech plant out of thin air, even though they were previously fighting about 2000+ meters away? I don't get why this should be proof of something bad? In fact I would much prefer if fights nowadays required a bit more foresight and planning, but nope what we get is "press delete, spawn wherever the hell you want with 80 of your buddies."

Have you ever considered a zerg that goes uncontested and allowed to ghost cap is a conscious decision? All those people tied up frees up a lot of other lanes for more organized outfits who know how to send squads to different hex's. That zerg might cap one hex in the time a rival faction caps five, thus the ghost capping zerg tends to hurt it's own side more then it does help it.

I bring up the Dark Prince only to illustrate one point: TE was famous for bringing easily double the numbers of the enemy to a fight and dropping in via galaxy to absolutely crush whichever hex they were in. It's one of the reasons Mattherson/Emerald VS are so aggressive in how they redeploy entire platoons at once nowadays - they learned this behavior in response to TE. Once you get beyond the abrasive personality of BCP, the thing TE ends up being most hated for amongst the Mattherson veterans is how they treated every fight with a sledgehammer, dropping over a third of the faction pop on a single hex and leaving as soon as they came. I was there, I watched this happen for months and months.

Redeploy mechanics allow for rapid population adjustments between lanes. They currently restrict redeploying so it is only an option if your faction is less than 50% in that hex. If you remove redeployment, there will be no even fights. Players will be stuck in their lane, with population inequalities. And instead of allowing 12-24 pubbies to shift lanes, in order to reinforce a fight you will need a platoon or outfit to load up gals and manually change lanes - which brings me back to the video. It was a great resecure, but it was essentially a complete zerging of that tech plant. Say goodbye to 50/50 tug of war and say hello to 70/30 massacres. Because no one can redeploy to help you. They are stuck 2 hexes over and don't feel like going back to the warp gate to fly gals in and help you.

I'm staying fairly neutral on this at the moment, mainly because at times I do like being able to just mindlessly look at the map find a fight and deploy their instantly, but I gotta agree with ronjahn here, that video seemed like a positive on how things could be and makes much more sense in the long run.

Yes, I'll send a 12-man squad to try and stop 100 zerglings, because that will work fine, lol.

And no, it's actually easier to let them waste a big chunk of their population doing nothing while you allocate your resources more efficiently (if we're talking about "the objective")

More organized outfits know that sending squads to different hex, if there's a organized outfit in the otherside, is shooting it's own foot. Since the enemies will respawn a platoon stop the attack in a base, then redeploy to the next. And keep it until you stop trying.

That's why redeploy should be removed. Let's stop cheesing and actually using tactics. Picking where you defend/attack. Not defending every single place at the same time.


And about uncontested zergs, HE wanted to bring it as argument to not removing redeploy.

So why you want to complain that removing redeploy will stop you from stopping the zerg. You aren't going there because you can't stop them. With OR without redeploy.

I don't see the logic of your argument.

PS: if you can change the odds of a battle you should go there. Not use the cheese "tactic" that DA use and redeploy in all the contested bases with battle under 12~24 with a platoon to stop the attack.

THAT is what create zergs. I will not try to attack the base with less then a platoon when a platoon will appear out of thin air when they feel like it.

PS2: Just to make clear.

With redeploy "tactic", you never know what is coming to try to stop you.
That is what creates zergs.
Zergs go capping "uncontested" because of that.
The ghost problem you talk about is the one yourself created.

Of courses removing redeploy will not instantly end all zergs. Ppl are already acostumed to "be in HUGE groups to survive" mindset.

But it's one of the things that, with other measures, will stop said zergs to happen.

They are not stuck, by your own contradictory admission in the very next part of the sentence, and "don't feel like it" is simply poor strategic forethought for a temporary tactical gain in the lane they are already in.

But by all means, continue with the dominant status quo of Redeployside/Infantryside, see how well that works out for the game that went from 30,000 to 5,000 when there are other games that do map/arena changes and infantry fire team based FPS better that already exist.

Because with my suggestion you'll know that at most you'll have to face the same numbers you're bringing, if you bring 24 to attack, only around that number will be able to respond (at least via redeploy), you don't have to bring 100 people only so you can be sure you're not outzerged when people start redeploying (something that actually happens to us a lot, we're attacking and winning against decent odds, 50/50 or 40/60, and all of a sudden a HUGE zerg redeploys, and we go from 40/60 to 20/80, that sucks too).

Basically what I want is a redeploy mechanic that incentives you to stop attacking zergs, and also stops zergs from redeploying to stop smaller attacks