Playing VS for a bit I have learned one thing.

Im sorry what?

Yes, but this applies to Magriders just as well. Strafing speed isn't significant enough to matter - in close ranges Magrider will be too big on your screen for you to miss and at long ranges any tank can avoid incoming shells. Only in medium range you can benefit from strafing and this is when you can make use of Magrider's unpredictable movement patterns. Keep in mind however that every tank has a way to dodge incoming rounds and it would take some well-prepared tests to determine how big the strafing advantage at that range really is. From my personal experience with Lightning and Prowler (to a much lesser extent, my TR alt is like 16BR), strafing isn't much more useful than driving with your side exposed; remember that pro tankers are able to shoot down ESFs which have smaller hitboxes and move in a three dimensional space at up to 5 times higher speeds than Mags; experienced tanker will not have much problems with strafing Magrider, and even mediocre ones shouldn't.

Circle strafe maneuver can be imitated by normal tanks and since their forward/reverse speed acceleration and max speed are higher than Magrider's strafe acceleration and max speed value they actually have a higher chance of avoiding the round at the expense of exposing side armor. Additionally, Magrider can never run away from the enemy while shooting because it's turret is fixed, so as I've mentioned earlier - you can only do one thing at a time. Because of this Magrider is a tank with the most vulnerable rear of all MBTs, not to mention C4 fairies. It can't react to being ambushed as quickly as other tanks and since it has Prowler-level armor it melts quickly. Additionally, Magrider's anti-air capabilities are limited compared to other MBTs because of smaller elevation angles. And because the main turret is set so low, the "peek-a-boo" capabilities you speak of are affected by medium-sized rocks. Plus it's not like other tanks can't move with their side exposed to the enemy, going back and forth to cover while shooting. The horizontal hitbox will be bigger than the front of a Mag, but they will be able to move faster when driving to or from behind cover. But long range fights aren't suitable for Mags, they have objectively the worst primary cannons of all MBTs in terms of velocity and damage (DPS is slightly below Vanguard's, and Mag has less alpha damage).

To Mag's advantage there is definitely the awesome turret stabilization, hovering, the ability to climb quickly and access to places no other tanks can go. The last two advantages however more than often leave the tank exposed, especially climbing (again, fixed turret).

As for Magburner - it is situational, I would say it's on par with anchor mode and nothing compared to vanguard's shield. However, Magrider is still the slowest MBT (and it used to hold the middle ground for forward/reverse acceleration before Vanguard buff, I don't know how the situation looks now) and Magburner isn't enough to compensate for max speed being the lowest in certain situations, like when you're chased around Indar Excavation Site or on Esamir. Somewhere on forumside there is a thread with all the math concerning speeds.

On another note, our AV secondary got nerfed hard (COF, half of magazine to kill infantry provided you're accurate) and PPA is going to be next. It's understandable, but we will be left with a fat harasser that gets useful only after you max it out around one loadout.

You are somewhat right about this, OP made a comment and I've disagreed with him. Oh the horror! Obviously the forums aren't a place suitable for discussion and expressing views. Thankfully OP stays on topic, unlike you. Plus I didn't see you disprove any of my points yet, so feel free to do that before you call them "poor" just because you feel like it.

I'm not used to discussing balance with people who have no arguments and resort to cheap ad hominem and overexamination of posts they don't like. Contain your "crap" opinions and stop projecting the quality of your viewpoint on mine because obviously you have nothing constructive to say, acting like a dismissive as**ole and chanting "B-BUT THE SKILL CEILING!" won't change the facts. You can't balance gameplay only around pros; they will overperform with every weapon you give them. I'm done talking with you.

I can agree that Swagrider is more fun to use than a prowler but heeeeeeellsbells its 10* easier to farm infantry with prowlers dual barrels... that is not an opinion thats a fact... if u put a PPA on your mag however...

I would've thought we'd all be on board with the fact that the Magrider slightly underperforms by now. The aggregate data has shown that for some time (though admittedly I haven't seen a recent update to that data and didn't dig into whether the data was gathered correctly in a way that factored out popularity and playtime.)

My own stats have consistently shown the Prowler to be substantially superior to the Magrider (by an even larger margin than the aggregate stats show), which is basically even with the Vanguard. So I have high confidence in the aggregate stats, and even suspect that they don't indicate the true disparity between the tanks at optimal play. (Aggregate stats will indicate imbalances experienced by the average player (who doesn't play optimally), and the balance for them is perhaps more important than for the players at the higher end of things who may experience even more dramatic tank imbalances than an average joe.)

this feels like a thinly veiled "nerf magrider" thread

mattiace's video is not the way it is most of the time. He does not have any air coming after him with rocket pods, which is usually the case, for me. With his loadout he would be helpless to fend off air attacks as the PPA cant shoot up vertically and the main gun is very bad at getting any higher elevation shots off. I seldom use the magrider, but i like its abilitys. The one thing that sucks totally is that its speed is so low that it can barely get out of its own way without a heavy cert investment in Magburn. Espcially once it's been hit. Try to run off only to get wasted by any body shooting at you and you'll long for the speed of the prowler, lighntning or vanny. The most frustrating aspect of the the prowler, lightning and vanny is that they bumped the terrain so bad throwing off your sight picture that it was almost impossible to shoot while moving unless on flat ground. Since they buffed the stabilization its great for the other faction and is a nerf for the Mag as it killed one of the few advantages it had over other tankers.

Zeee planes!

I love my magrider. I think it's flaws make every kill I get with it that much sweeter. It is an easy tank to use and in the right hands even if 1/2 it's a lethal killing machine.

Magrider is cool... that is the only perk imho.

Mags have the highest skill ceiling.

Not really. They are good fun to use and are a lot stronger out of the box than most people give them credit for.

However it lacks the durability of the vanny or the power and speed of the prowler.

Out of the three it is definitely the most fun to use and the easiest to control. However it is far from needing a nerf. A lock on rocket is all that is needed to get rid of the one thing that one could call "over powered" about it.

As my post says it is from the perspective of someone going rank 1-20 and playing the mag a bit in combat scenarios.

I have nothing against it but to say it has the highest skill ceiling is a bit silly. It can get places no other tank can, they can slide over each other when it tight spaces, they can move in 8 directions, and are just over all easier to move with. The other tanks have to keep in mind where their front and back are, where they position as not to get stuck, and many other little things ranging from the angle their cannon has, to making sure they have room on each side to turn if they need to.

The only thing the magrider has that is hard to do is not run people over.

Saying something has a high skill ceiling doesn't mean it does. Especially when you are talking to someone who doesn't claim to be good but still did rather well with it on their first run with it.

I am awful with the other tanks but the mag was easy to use and very maneuverable. Unless you are talking about playing "super MLG pro skillz" in which case you can make that argument for everything in the game. Even a frag grenade could have a high skill ceiling for someone that does trick shots with it.

The problem is that leaves the VS without a Main Battle Tank.

Yeah, VS gets a sweet ganking EFF YOUUUU surprise buttsecks tank, but for direct armor v armor large scale fights, VS is lacking.

Not that there's anything entirely wrong with that... asymmetry and all that.

Well the TR don't get a great Main Battle Tank either, it's more of a "GET DOWN INCOMING SHELLS from 300 meters to the EAST! AHHHHWRRGRGRGR!" with an ability that makes even less sense now that tanks have more turret stabilization and thus can fire on the move better. Asking for a whole new ability probably won't happen any time soon though, so I'd prefer the Vulcan gets buffs to just gives us the option of trying to play a little for of the MBT type tank.

I personally feel that the Magrider deserves a buff to the duration of the Magburner so it can do more fun, crazy things, and be an even better hit and run super harasser type vehicle.

Forgive me for being a *******, but doesn't lockdown on the prowler give you an absurd DPS boost? I've seen a prowler in lockdown tear a vanguard with a shield a new ******* in seconds.

yeah.... NC have the best "MBT" but rely far more on the lightning for AI work unlike TR and VS who can farm inf like no tomorrow with slightly diff builds.


However, your seige tank does have a strong "en mass" to it in that the firepower put out from several locked down prowlers is unrelenting and downright overpowering (not overpowered. there's a very distinct difference. It's only overpowering in a single aspect, and can be countered by simply avoiding kill zones.).

I'd really like to see more organization with APAP lines. They kick out enough damage they could eat through IWIN shields if they focused properly. The biggest problem is you're going to get hit... a LOT... and need repair backup which adds repair backup necessity (repair sundies work well here) as well as a few engies that run behind repairing the damage.

Alas, this is 95% meaningless speculation because huge armor fights are SO BLOODY RARE that it's not really worth developing a strategy when, if you lose, you just pull a bunch of Libs or AV HA/Engie/MAXes and chew through them before respawning your armor

We should test various ranges of Vulcan and Halberd secondaries on an AP Prowler vs Vanguard with Enforcer, max lock down and shield with opening shots at the same time and see what happens.

By "we" I of course mean 2 other highly motivcated go-getter forum members who want to do this, and record it for video evidence that we can use to discuss.

If you want to record it, we can do it right now. Fire up PTS.

Do it, you won't.













fite me 1 v 1























M8

It's really great provided the enemy doesn't have cover close by to run to once you start hitting them, provided you're far away from the main line to avoid C4 fairy cheese, and your enemy doesn't figure out where you before you kill then it's a great ability. It's almost useless in a straight up tank fights when unless it's purely 1v1 with no interruption, the enemy has no cover, the enemy is far enough away they won't drive around behind you, and the tank isn't a AP/Enforcer Vanguard. IMO the deploy and un deploy times are about twice of what they should be.

It's extremely situational, and now that tanks have more stabilization it's even more so. It's the best special ability provided you aren't getting shot at, but it's absolutely the worst ability if the enemy knows you're there or will immediately know you're there. A Vanguard can kill a lockdown Prowler is seconds too depending on the situation.

The Vulcan is terribad at ranges outside out 70 meters, and I'd personally almost never pull it unless I was trying to fight with PPA Magriders inside the courtyard of an Ampstation.


Until infantry AV weapons are brought in line so they can't Instagib tanks from beyond infantry render distance don't expect to see too many big armor convoys or fire lines outside of BWC on Tuesday and Friday evenings. We still do firing lines, but it doesn't take long until someone or some outfit gets their feelings hurt and starts using the honorless tactic of using AV turrets or Lancers from beyond the ranges they render. If you want to ride along with BWC when our Rampage Armor task force is active add me and you can ride along in my tank as a guest or try to follow us. Just look for the Indar Dry Brush Prowlers. All my gunners get access to a 2X Zoom, fully reload upgraded Halberd.

except you move way slower, have bigger outline, and cannot have 3rd person freelook
what's that, you're shooting at a tank, peek-a-boo style? too bad, there is somebody shooting you from your side, now you have to turn your whole tank around because you can't see what's shooting at you and cannot shoot back without turning your back to the original target
magrider has WAY less mobility than harasser. and it narrows your field of view and restricts your position to "always facing front"