I'm a little uncomfortable with attachments being able to be purchased with SC.

Exactly.


If you believe in the pure defination of P2W.

That is it is only P2W if someone that has spent less $$$s than you can never kill you.

Then of course basically nothing is P2W, including being able to buy instant reloads/health pack/grenades for $$$s in game etc.




Of course, it is a meaningless debate because there is no defination of P2W, and it doesn't matter what defination is evangelically put forward anyway, only what people themselves believe (because if someone believes something is P2W and they leave because of it no amount of semantical arguement over the defination of P2W is going to change that reality - of them having left).



Which is why I think it would be strange for them to stop here (with some things, quite arbitarily, being able to be bought with SC and some not) instead of just going the whole hog and making everything SC purchasable (because people that won't put up with that as "P2W" will have already left anyway and those that haven't left won't think it is "P2W" to go all the way).

And making everything SC purchaseable is going to raise a LOT more $$$, short-term at least.

Having mulled it over, I echo the opinion that non-max attachments are fine. Large cert investments for significant benefits, like MAX extended mags are problematic.

Infantry attachments generally have downsides, such that even players who have everything unlocked will swap attachments for the same reason they swap weapons - better in different situations, making them side-grades. Any exceptions to this are still minor effects. The cert pricing for attachments is also comparatively low given a lot of other certs.

Regardless of this SC change, MAX extended mags and such have always been a problem to free players. Why? Because they are noticeable upgrades, with no downside, that cost enough to put off many free players.

What SOE could do to alleviate this:

-Reduce the benefit from extended mags. For example, with Bursters 50% is very large, make it more like 30% (with or without an increase in default mag size)
-Split the certs up into 3 x 10%, with increasing cert cost (say, 100/150/250). This allows people to quickly close the gap and applies in most areas specifically to help new players catch up. Why should MAXes be an exception to this?
-Possibly create a downside, such as reduced reload speed built into the certs, or an alternative upgrade which is provided and equipped by default.


Overall, my biggest problem with this game is how long it is taking to get what have been considered by many "core features" for PS2 to play as it should. If the SC change means more money and more investment in PS2 then that's a good thing.

I'd also agree that the biggest pay-to-win aspect currently is the resource boost. It may not matter too much right now but it is set to become a lot more of an advantage after the Resource Revamp.


If SOE are looking for new ways to make money, how about player-made cross-hairs?

The game has been out for to long. Let new players buy whatever they want. They are already may feel they are at a disadvantage when they start. I want them to be able to feel they are at the same playing field as the lifers. If a player is frustrated at dying or not killing an esf before it flies away. Let them pay money for the item that they feel will make the difference. I look forward to a level 5 player standing in the middle of some random field with duel bursters killing a high level esf pilots. That stuff puts a smile on my face even if it is me they shoot down. It is the randomness of new players that keeps the game alive and people on their toes.

CHANGE IS INEVITABLE GROWTH "IN NEW BLOOD" IS THE ONLY OPTION and if you can make money too. Well that doesn't hurt the bottom line. So hit the summer time cash register SOE and bank all you can. Because, I want more content and money makes the gears run smoother. Just put all the best gear into a package for newbies bursters, air lockons, extra clip size max nanite and flak armor, AV turrets, fully fleshed out gals, or tanks, repair/medic tools etc. Do one load out for each class and bank it for future production of "THIS GAME ;p" I want this game to endure so BANK

Sorry if I'm repeating what someone else has already said regarding much of the nonsense posted on the first page of this thread (the above is a prime example), but I couldn't handle reading another 11 pages of it.

I've unlocked all the above with certs, so does that make me some kind of "cert to win" character? Sounds stupid doesn't it?

Some people have cash to burn, let them burn it on these things and help support the game. The only difference is that they get access to this stuff quicker but, as we're not in a race with each other, that does not mean pay to win.

^ Indeed. Playing a new char and competing against a BR100 with most of their preferred gameplay options maxed out is a more of a challenge than many will admit to.

I'd even go as far as to allow vehicle weapons to be done the same way.

That's a problem with the progression system.

The solution is super simple: start all characters with one max-rank item in every slot (not 1-cert to upgrade, but you just flat out start with it maxed and equipped.) Now everything is a sidegrade.

Exactly. At this point i wouldnt care if ALL players had access to everything. This game is about war not 1v1 dueling. New players should be having fun playing the objective, not having to chase certs.

Since you've brought RoyAwesome's list back up, I guess I'll bring up the concern I neglected to voice in a timely manner when this was still a new thread:

We don't have an attachment that does that.

TBH if your spending real money on attachments then your just a mug.

I would suggest that it is better to buy what you can with SC so that way you can spend your certs on ... other, more important, things.

Honestly guys, at this point in the games like it REALLY doesnt matter if they let attachments be purchasable, theres a huge range of BR's for players in the game now, each that have huge ranges of attachments, certs, weapons, etc...

So really, whats to stop a brand new free BR 1 player from getting killed by a free BR 100 player that has played long enough to get many weapons, attachments and certs, and then for that free BR 1 player to think that the game is obviously pay to win?

Hell, by BR 5-6 or whatever it was I had any mods that I cared about at least, on the starting weapon everyone gets for a class. So that same situation could leave a BR1 player thinking they paid to get all that stuff, think its P2W and leave.


So really, what does it matter?

Is this going to hurt the game in the long run, or short term?

If SOE all of a sudden had a MASSIVE influx of players, I can see there being a problem, but at this point in the game's life, the only thing that will give a significant boost in population, rather than a trickle amount, assuming the amount of people joining is greater than those that leave, is the release of the PS4 version, which leads to there being a small infusion of new players for the PC version that now just learned about its existence.


Either way, seriously, I don't see how there's ever an argument of p2w when a free player can get the exact same things with time...

Cause to me its logical sense, its a free game, but your delusional if soe doesn't want to make money, cause if they don't the game goes bye bye, so personally I think its fair that someone who paid money, can skip the grind. I on the other hand will continue to be patient and play the game and earn everything with time.

So who else logged in last night, saw they had a bunch of certs and spent them only to find out you didn't have any attachments? lol it happened to me .

No, that is NOT the definition actually.

The most commonly agreed to P2W definition is items that improve your chances that are unavailable without $, with the worst type being consumable power up items only available for money (or really, any consumable that you have to spend money on to keep).

Not even the worst P2W would give an auto-IWIN to buyers, you still need to take your advantage and win with it. But it's an unfair advantage unavail to free players.

They're making the game too easy for these new players (remember the days when you HAD TO STAND ON THE POINT....those were the days)

That would be less game and less money for the players and SOE though.

It is the most extreme "nothing is P2W definiton" which is exactly and perfect AS valid as any other defination of P2W.

Your definition above is no more or less right than any other (and is no more or less commonly agreed either) it is simply A defination of a myriad of P2W definitions.




However as I said that whole thing is meaningless, whatever anyone argues the definition of P2W to be is meaningless, it is what people believe it to be when it drives them to leave (no amount of arguing that actually selling in-game reloads for $1 is not P2W is ever going to convince people that believe it IS that it IS NOT - they are already gone).


Which is why I think (along with the ecomomic factors; i.e. that PS2 is clearly not making the money they want it too) they'll end up making everything buyable with SC - because they have little to lose; those that believe it to be P2W will already have left the game and those left won't believe everything being buyable for SC is P2W (if they don't believe extended mags for MAXs is P2W).

As one of the biggest money-making games of all time, it hasn't harmed League of Legends' profits. In fact, it was the tipping point that got them a lot more of my money actually, because they had created a F2P game with a level playing field.

It is a very different game though seemingly (team warcraft?).

But I don't doubt SOE making all infantry, MAX and Vehcile upgrades purchasable with SC will make money, in the short-term at least.

Attachements today certs tomorrow is what i am thinking.

Sounds like another coffin nail to me.

That is one thing they need to bring back I agree with completely.

As for this whole pay to win crap...this game is not pay to win in any sense of the word.

You want pay to win go play any MMO under the Perfect World reigns and you will see pay to win in action from the minute you start playing the game.

For example the game Star Trek Online under Perfect World...full of ships/ship consoles with very overpowered abilities that can only be purchased with real money and not able to be earned in game at all. That is the full definition of pay to win...nothing in this game is pay to win in any way shape or form.

This is the same game that when I first started playing you had to buy the game and pay a subscription for. They then proceeded when the game went free to play to remove items and ships that came with the game I paid for and put them into their shop and made you have to pay for them again if you wanted them on other characters you created with no way to get them in game as you could before.