Indeed, the recoil stats are now available on the stats.dasanfall.com. Cougar: FSRM: 1.5x Horizontal recoil: 0.1875-0.1875 Vertical recoil: 0.35 Lynx: FSRM: 2x Horizontal Recoil: 0.1793-0.1986 Vertical recoil: 0.34 Bandit: FSRM: 1.75x Horizontal recoil: 0.2-0.2 Vertical recoil: 0.437 Zenith: FSRM: 2.4x Horizontal recoil: 0.2465-0.2748 Vertical recoil: 0.295 Unfortunately, no recoil angle or horizontal tolerance information is available. To be honest, I'm very surprised with Cougar. I always felt it had much, much more horizontal recoil. Don't know about recoil angle, but otherwise Cougar's recoil stats are identical to Razor's, which is a pretty damn accurate weapon.
Zenith is about where I expected it. Its horizontal recoil is Really, REALLY bad. Almost as bad as the Serpent (.25/.275). It basically forces you to buy the Adv foregrip to get any decent sort of range out of it, which you need because at short-medium range the Serpent and VX6-7 are just better, .75x ADS movement or not. It's too bad too, if it's H.recoil was more reasonable (say, .2/.225 or so) it'd actually be a decent mid-range weapon. But as it stands there's really no reason to get this over the default Solstice.
Lynx is super inaccurate /s. Been telling people for ages how good the new Lynx is. (I know we don't have recoil angles yet, but still...).
My guess is that the deviation in recoil angle is what throws it off, in comparison to the Jaguar's even horizontal recoil. I haven't used the Zenith before, so I can't say for sure.
That could be it, though I can't remember from the top of my head if Zenith actually has angled recoil. I'm working on datamining weapon stats from game files at the moment, so maybe soon we will know for certain. Though I have a strong hunch that the process is gonna be much harder than what it seems now.
Yep, and I have similar issues w/ the Jag vs the default TRAC-5. I've not tried out the "new" Lynx yet but I presume it's better at CQC/short range than the Jag. And the TRAC-5 has the same RoF/DPS/TTK as the Jag but is significantly more accurate. I don't think the .75x ADS multiplier is enough benefit to justify spending certs/Smedbucks on the Jag when the Lynx is (again, presumably) better up close and the TRAC-5 is better at mid-long range.
Lynx has worse hip fire CoF by default, and it expands at the same rate as for the 143 damage weapon, which means that not only Lynx has a shorter effective hip fire range than Juguar, but even shorter than GD-7F/ Serpent. Not to mention that having a 1 bullet higher TTK is a disadvantage in itself. Lynx is a very weird weapon, with disadvantages and advantages we're not used to seeing on carbines.
It does, according to older stats that are no longer available. It was much worse on PTS beforehand, I think it's now 1-3 degrees (can't remember which) within 10 degrees, so it's not a huge or greatly deviant angle but it does have one where the Jaguar does not. Probably has better tolerance than the Jag, but there's no way to know without stats. Lynx and TORQ tolerance is clearly low (how low is hard to say) in addition to low recoil; bloom appears to be the achilles heel of 125 damage guns instead of horizontal recoil, since they bloom like 143 guns. Bandit probably has really bad tolerance, as its actual recoil statistics are pretty good. Everything I've seen about the Cougar suggests it's a copy-paste of the Razor except the reloads and magazine size, so unless it has noticeably worse tolerance than the Razor it's basically the Razor... but better. Gotta think the NC would be chuffed about that, TR got one of their guns but with a 16% bigger magazine. After doing some testing I'm semi-convinced that tolerance is affected by Grips by the way, so the Zenith probably shouldn't be run without that Advanced Grip. That should give it a marked ADS advantage over the Jaguar since it starts better statistically and should end up better with a better tier of Grip.
Well I have a semi-reliable way of testing this, however, it requires a lot of manual work, so I'm not in a terrible hurry to do it. Here's the algorithm for future reference: 1) Equip a 4x simple crosshair scope and desired attachments. High magnification scope is used to increase the pixels-per-shot recoil, to make the results more clear. Normally I would go to VR training, but I don't recommend it now, since many of the attachments are bugged there. Go to the Warpgate, and find something to use as a starting point for the first shot. This could be anything small. 2) Record a video of a long burst. Preferably, with static and synchronized FPS of 30 or 60, so not only the video will have a static frame rate, but the game as well. DXtory is perfect for that. You will get a file like that one. 3) Next, use a video editing program, like Sony Vegas, and overlay a picture of two crossed lines in the middle of the screen. This is necessary, because only the exact middle of the screen represents the recoil correctly, while the crosshair itself wobbles around a lot. Here's an example picture. Feel free to make the dot in the middle use negative colors instead of simply bright yellow I use. You can also slow down the video. You will get something like this. 4) Render the video, and open it with a video player that can play it one frame at a time, like Media Player Classic from K-Lite Codec Pack. In between the shots, middle of the screen will stabilize briefly. Save each frame with stabilized recoil, Alt + I for Media Player Classic. You will get images like these. 5) Use Photoshop or any other similar program to superposition (overlay) all saved frames on top of each other, using the starting point as a reference. Mark position of the screen for each frame with a colored dot on a separate layer. You will get a file like this one. Save the resulting layer with positions of the center of the screen as a separate file. Like this one: 6) Analyze the result. Ponder at the reasons for existence and why you just wasted two hours just to discover what kind of recoil the gun has.
Well huh, Bandid doesn't have that much more Hrec than I thought... I guess Jag deserves a Hrec buff... otherwise 0,2-0,2 on Bandit ain't that much fair... Reduce Jag's Hrec max to 0,25 maybe?
It is entirely possible that Bandit's weakness lies in vertical recoil angle variance, which is unknown at this point. Who knows, maybe it has huge recoil variance of 10 degrees? (that is, if Bandit has angled recoil at all, not sure).
One more reason to ignore this mediocre weapon. So much horizontal recoil and worse ads accuracy than the default VS carbine. Worse at close range than the VX6-7 and Serpent. Such a shame too, I wanted to buy the Zenith until I saw the stats and tried it in VR.
I suppose that is their reasoning for giving the Bandit 3 tier damage drop rather than 2 tier like the Jaguar and Zenith.
Holy ****, no one told me, but the spreadsheet actually got updated July 14! Same old link works: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...BINE&sortcolid=0&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250 So now we can see all the stats, including recoil angle.
I also found the Zenith to be really underwhelming. It's supposed to be a carbine version of the Carnage and fit between the Solstice and the VX6-7 but it pretty much fails at that niche. In a lot of ways it's worse than the Jaguar which a lot of people aren't great fans of either. If the accuracy stats are to remain as they are then I'd like to see the RoF bumped up to 750 and the bullet velocity to 490. These would put it within it's supposed niche. Otherwise, focusing on accuracy might be a nice alternative since we already have access to 2 CQC carbines.
I dunno what you're talking about, the differences between Jaguar and Zenith are very minor, and Jaguar is an amazing weapon, one of the best available to LA. 1 degree of recoil variance can be ignored. Only 30 rounds suck, but short reload kind of compensates for that, and damage per magazine is a disadvantage of ALL VS carbines, save for Pulsar C. Lack of SPA and only 30 rounds instead of Jaguar's 40 make Zenith a bit less powerful than Jaguar, but thanks to Advanced Forward Grip and higher minimum damage, Zenith is much more effective than VX6-7 at range, which has horrible recoil variance of 10 degrees. In the end, I'd say, they did a good job of creating a unique and adaptable weapon and plug a hole in VS arsenal at the same time.
My point is that it's not very good at plugging that hole. The RoF advantage over the Solstice is too small to justify the loss of accuracy. This is why I suggested increasing the RoF to 750RPM. It would make it more similar to the Jaguar (which personally I think is a very nice weapon, it's just that I've seen quite a few TR not being very happy with it). The bullet velocity being even lower than that of the VX6-7 also doesn't help its ranged performance.
My thoughts in the .75s... Jaguar is a good mid range gun with a delicious mobility bonus bonus and hip fire bonus that gives it close range competence. The zenith is a mid range gun dressed up as well, but the slightly lower h recoil and afg don't overcompensate the lost dps as much as you think. Long range really gives a lot more cover objects so it is important that you kill the target quickly before they reach one. The lower killing power also hurts. Sightly less good up close too, but it doesn't fall too far behind. Bandit is a... Pile of ****... Terrible dps at distance, while high fire rate isn't king up close it is still a little better and the bandit is much slower shooting... Just a bad gun with a perk to try and make up for it, cept that perk doesn't fire potentiality lethal grenades, and we all know what happened when the s carbines stopped firing potentially lethal grenades (they were regarded as bad weapons)
