Upcoming Tank and Liberator Changes

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Kevmo, Jun 6, 2014.

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  1. Klypto

    I used Vanguard HE.

    Canister isn't valid at all because the only ones who use it by any worthwhile amount do it solo. They drive the tank and switch to the secondary to kill infantry with it. It's why their kills per hour are astronomical because they don't sit in the gun unless they are killing someone with it.
  2. drstrange2014


    Bare in mind that many of the mods here and the support staff don't even actually work for SOE. They work for a company in India that support is outsourced to. They haven't played the game and in reality know almost nothing about it.
  3. Silkensmooth

    The only reason that the lib would need a nerf is if ESF didn't completely dominate it. If flak didn't dominate every large fight. If lock-ons couldn't be fired from inside the spawn room. If the lib wasn't a massive giant thing in the sky that absolutely anyone with the gift of sight can see.

    This is a combined arms game.

    So if my side brings an airforce and your's doesnt that means my air needs a nerf?

    If a single lib comes to camp at your base, all you need to do is pull a single ESF to deal with it.

    OR you could stand outside the spawnroom trying to lock-on to it.
  4. Silkensmooth

    Having said that i still believe very firmly that thermals need nerfed in some way.

    By adding the cold blooded implant.

    Or by lowering their effective range to such a degree that to use them you would have to be so low that it would be very easy to hit you with a dumbfire.
  5. Silkensmooth

    Unfortunately most of the poeople posting have no idea what its like to fly a lib.

    They have no idea that its just about completely useless at any meaningful fight.

    Or they only drive tanks and since the lib is the only thing that can kill them, they hate it.
    • Up x 1
  6. Silkensmooth

    If i want to pad my stats the last thing i will do is fly a lib.

    You don't get a lot of kills as a lib pilot really. Mostly your gunner gets the kills.

    I have a much better K/D in my ESF than i do in a lib.

    I do far better as an SMG inf than i do as a lib pilot.

    Tank is by far the best thing in the game to farm K/D with.

    I have nearly 40 days flying ESFs and close to twenty flying libs.

    Libs are terrible. I only fly them when i have friends on. It's fun to get a couple friends and be able to do something together as a team.

    And its not fair for an ESF to one pass, as you say, a lib.

    Why? Because a lib is sooooo easy to hit.

    Because it is completely helpless against a good ESF pilot.

    Because in order to one clip a tank you have to get right down close to the ground where you are in extreme danger.

    Extremely high risk, high reward.

    Because tanks just farm infantry all day and the only thing that can reliably kill them is a lib.

    I know this because i have about 7 days driving my maggy farming infantry.
    • Up x 1
  7. Silkensmooth

    If you don't think that libs are already ESF fodder, get in one. Get two of your friends to gun for you. Then send me a tell and ill come show you how easy it is for me to kill you.

    You won't even hit me once.
  8. Mystogan

    Libarator changes are goo imo becasue few thngs. I know lib-defenders will come and tell me how much "risk", "reward", "skill" and other things they have and noobs on ground have no idea. I don't care. I will just make my points.

    1. Lib role is CLEAR in description and SOE post- IT IS gun-ship, which primary role is GROUND suppression. GROUND.
    2. Dalton is AV weapon. AV. Not AA. And so it will be nerfed in velocity to not be used on Air. Same was with Saron, Vulcan nerfs some time ago. Wanna be AV? Equip AV and suffer AI and AA. Wanna be AA? Equip AA and suffer lack of AI and AV.

    And that how Lib will work now. You equip Dalton- you are going against ground, and won't hit Air. You will need ESFs suport, like all DAMN gunships need. No more Lib-solo master who is anti-everything.

    3. Resistance. Lib is big target becasue it is gunship. If he is going low and trying to tank-buster- his risk. If he ate two (TWO!) 150mm cannon shells from Vanguard- he dies. It is game, so he can eat two shells. Show me Gunship who wil survive 150 mm shell in cockpit? And so ingame he should survives two- NO MORE, like now. He go low now- lib need to be sure he can finish target. Not like now- they get low, they can tank even two shells and there is nice hill/mountain on left side, they will just hide there and repair. Good it will be back to normal like before.

    Yesterday Miller- tawrich tech plant, NC vs VS. NC pulled libs, I was on one of tawrich AA towers and saw myself- Lib is getting from behind hills, going low-fast (AA turrets start shooting, some people maybe spoted lib), tank buster lone magrider and fly behind next hill smoking, but alive. BS. With 3 AA turrets it should be dead pices of metal. But it is 3-man team-work ship, right?

    4. Tail Bulldog- same as with Dalton. Wanna go AI? Equip buldog and suffer lack of AA. Wanna go AA? Equip Walker or Hyena and suffer AV and AI. No more all around lib-builds.

    5. Tank buster nerf- tank buster nerf is needed to encourage tankers to flank, make solo-dual runs on enemy flank etc with tanks. Right now, if there is even ONE LIB around battle, tanks prefer to stick with zerg because when they will try to make some flank, super-skilled LIB crew who is so-skilled to tank-buster this lone tank will insta kill this tank, since tanks can't rise their cannons to shoot lib (becasue Lib would start cry that Tanks dare to shoot them, even though nowadays tanks can rise cannons pretty high) I ask- why Lib is allowed to go solo around, but tank cannot becaue there is one LIB around. Lib will still solo around if there is one skyguard around, since he can insta-kill with Tank-busters in rear. Changes shoud prevent people from forming zergs and use tactic. Right now, one-two LIBS and tanks won't move from zerg. That how it works right now. At least right now Lib will need more effort to kill a tank and will feel more respect to eating 150 mm shells, which will 2shot-kill him.

    6. Lib Sound- good, at least now you will hear them coming. Skyguard is very loud and when you are in it, you mostly do not hear skilled-lib going for your ***. Even if you do, you start shoot, he just tank-buster you to rear. But again- 1-man vehicle shouldn't kill 3-man super-skilled vehicle right?

    7. But the problem is- skyguard when pulled is Dedicated AA- it sucks at everything, and is a cert-bag for any C4 faire or AP tank. But lib roght now (super-skilled ofc) while taking tank-buster, after burner, Shredder and Walker 2/3 crew (I know, I gun for dedicated lib pilot) are anti-everything.

    You slap thermal on shredder and you are: fast to tank buster even escaping ESF, AV and AA with Shredder, AI with Thermal Shredder, and Walker to shoot at ESFs on tail. You do not need 3 people. 2 is enough if Gunner knows how to swap and when.

    So Skyguard who is pulled to be ONLY AA- is screw, while Lib can be anti-everything? BS. And Lib costing 350 resources compare to 450 MBTs? So 3-man all around powerfull gunship is cheaper than 2 man-more specialized vehicle. That is BS and it is the reason why there are so many libs. LIBs should cost at least 500 resources.

    As I said, I know lib-defenders will burn me, but I do not care. Since last LIB update- there were many players who left the game, and libs did more bad to the game than even pre-nerf HE/Marauder Prowlers.

    Who would have though- fast, agile, armored flying tank with big fire power, resistance nad low resource cost will be a balance problem- who would have thought.....
    • Up x 8
  9. Collin

    As I stated many times: If you want new players you need to give them a chance. You are talking about you spent x-certs into the LIB and you deserve the farm. Sir you do not!

    AA is so pathetic in this game its just broken. The best and number one choise to bring down a Lib is a Lib. Even with ESF there is no chance to kill him 100 %. To fight a Lib in a ESF you need to be really good and even then you have a good chance to just die. The amour allows the LIB to move alot of hexes into the save terretory before you get that thing burning. I am not even talking about the shredder which is totaly broken.

    On Miller you see outfits running Shredder Libs on high altitude just to use them as AA Platform. If you have them on Max ceeling you have no chance to get rid of them. Lock ons dont reach them and AA just does to little damage on distance.

    The argument but its hard to fight in a 48+ battle in a LIB does not count! Tanks, Sundys, Harrassers and Flashes die left and right and you want to hover over the battlefield and think you deserve the farm. Nope wrong again.

    The ignorance of some pilots are astonishing. For some reason they think the game needs to be redisigned just that they can keep that broken thing. If something is broke you need to fix it and if they loose 20 customers but gain 200 good bye lib pilots.
    • Up x 9
  10. Surmise

    Sorry to say everything you wrote is out of context, what does any of that has to do anything for what i said??? You guys are one of biggest reasons this game is going downfall in terms of populations, fly lib 60days just clicking on ground farming mostly br 1-10, this point still stands.


    There's no real importance of perspective here because the problem is obvious and it cancers the game, get real not selfish.

    Tell me why has it never been a problem of Infantry dying versus infantry, seriously, was there ever a thread anywhere were someone would say that dying as infantry to infantry is a problem (MAX is not infantry, let's be clear it's just another cancer that destroys the game)?????

    My point on 'flying lib is relatively easy' is that any semi capable FPS player is capable of flying lib to some solid extent, you air guys still cater to opinions to those who are like you, just like people who upvoted your thread, every each one of them farms BR5 all day with shredder/zepher, shameless, you guys are not playing an FPS at all nor do you really want but you should try it sometimes it's fun if you have right mentality. But I still feel you will choose to continue playing an effortless minigame in a game while ruining new player's experience, sorry but thats hard truth and you arent contributing anything either except when you are actually shooting air for a change which most of 'farmers' try to avoid like plague.

    For your 4th paragraph 'If you found a squad guarding a staircase one might respond with concussion or anti vehicle grenades forcing a squad of defenders to spread. How is this different to sending a zepher or a tank round though a window?' Are you retrded? There is a difference, which is that I CAN AVOID THOSE GRENADES, THERES SKILL TO IT, IF I DIE FROM A SHELL that came God knows from which side of the window through the building, I dont know what the hell happened except that i got instagibbed before even having chance to avoid it or to see it coming. such a stupid argument man, you are not even wroth replying to plus you got 7 up votes but i'm extremely indifferent to them since you guys are obviously clueless if you cant comprehend simple stuff and since you have such retrded arguments, seriously, how can you justify shelling a building where the infantry fights, how is taht not shameless or not retrded??


    Also shredder weapon on lib is retrdedly overpowered, and you still are against the toning town that will happen soon, be ashamed. Look this guy, what is he actually doing here? Look how many low BRs did he kill. Do you think they knew where it was coming from or how to kill it, and even if they knew, do you think it's fun to do when you start a game??? Let's be frank here, IS IT actually fun to do AA duty in this game and is it rewarding at all when compared to where you can spend your time instead????


    Cant you people see? Do you think any player there who died like that is still playing rofl, especially if died many times??? Do you know how many thousands of players quit the game because they got farmed like this from MAXes on ground and from Air/tanks afterwards, i dont think community ever thought about that in any deeper way except, they need to adapt. Sure you need to adapt but isn't it kinda lame or bullsht that you have to waste your time dying on the stuffy you can't fight back?? There the biggest problem lies
    I don't know why SOE would ever listen to you airguys. Problems with you clueless selfish bunch of people are listed below:
    • You aren't actually Playing an actual objective in any way except farming, ruining ground fights, spawncamping which is extremely rage inducing sometimes when you die after just stepping outside of spawn shields, and this all is mostly how of LOW EFFORT lib shredder/zepher/dalton to ground farming is.
    • You can't comprehend the fun in infantry fights just like people who play vehicles 24/7 just can't ( like playing with few people together while having mini plans/objectives, covering backs of teamates in squad, sometiems/or every time giving your best in 1 life to see what you are capable of, mind games 1v1/what will enemy do, learning awareness/where is the enemy , planning on escape plan, finding good positions whether defending or attacking, pushing your reflexes/speed of aim everytime etc etc etc)
    • You are all deluded into thinking that you are good players for this game because you think that flying lib with a teammate and ruining otherwise great long lasting fights is top fun and you are top pros for doing that, same goes for ESF dedicated A2G rocketpod autists who only play for fun of facerolling and looking their kdr upping by 0.01 everytime they logout
    • A2A is non existant except for those who play for the fun of dogfighting which are only people there to be respected but even them know that farming ground is far too rewarding in terms of getting XP/certs and kdr boosts and in most cases low risk=/= extremely high reward. Just look at Daddy, key to his 46+ kdr in air is awareness, he knows how to use map, even for those 5seconds when hes not looking at map he remembers last location of red dot and keeps that in mind all the time and his focus is 95percent on ground targets and bails on sight to nearest spawn room/building to redeploy when hes about to 1v2/3 people in air.
    • Most of lib/dedicated A2G ESF 'pilots' are extremely arrogant too without any fundamentals to it, seriously what do think you guys are, some sort of epic uber player? guess what, you are trash who farms new players and rages in whisper when you die because you care about your kdr which is extemely irrelevant in air srs. Only area where kdr matters is on ground if you arent using MAX that is and if you arent 24/7 shooting from spawn like top retrd.
    • etc etc etc no time nor energy to explain so much in one post since most of this is obvious to any semi competent play in this game.
  11. Rhaegal

    I'll break my vow of silence and say what I have in mind without losing my verve cuz it might be the last time I do so.

    As an almost strictly a pilot, my average playing hours/week went from like 30+ to 4-10 mainly due to problems that really bugged me which I would consider trivial compared to those being "worked on".

    What's the point in playing a game that is perfectly "balanced" yet utterly boring 'cause that's where PS2 is diving into head-first nerfing everything that once considered fun.

    I can't say I haven't seen it coming. Didn't expect it that soon thu. As much as I realize how I shouldn't have spent what I've spent in PS2, I'm pretty certain that's it for for me for memberships, camos and whatever is still up devs' sleeves. I'm also quite sure that new PS4 player base will make it up for the likes of me 'cuz, well, if they don't, the game is dead already and I don't think you devs would kill something like this on purpose.
  12. Surmise

    Means to solve these problems:
    • Stop catering/listening to clueless bunch or autists like the people who play(spam) air and vehicles 24/7 and dont know anythign better and they leave when it gets nerfed , they are CLUELESS HELLO.
    • Implement some meaningful content LIKE RESOURCE REWAMP, HELLO WE NEED some meaning infused in this game, like What are bases for? Give them meaning, some award of owning them, Like it's been given for tech plants, but more meaningful, like faster vehicle speed across the map (in MPH), some sort of upgrades to new made unspammable force multipliers.
    • People who play the game like competition mostly, give us something that we can fight for and most importantly BRAG about, if this game was better 'ego' shooter we would 10x times more people playing, seriously, we need our names written when we do something good, screw leaderboards it's mostly filled with LIB/vehicle spammers. We need some sort of content that we can feast our ego on lol, seriously.
    • Also WE DONT NEED INSTANCED bullsht, focus on the servers, the game, things like MLG thing is what took most of your time where you could have spent it to upgrade the acutal game.
    Is this the game we want to play or the game the majority of gamers wants to play??


    rofl, people start thinking with your heads if you have any
    • Up x 1
  13. Collin


    So you are saying everybody is here to please your playstyle! Wake up people are leaving CAUSE they think sitting in a spawn room and being bombarded is no fun at all! Jesus Christ some people... really....
    • Up x 4
  14. MasterFancyPants


    They should have pulled AA... Oh, wait...
    They should have pulled ESFs... Oh, wait...
  15. BlackDove

    Are you serious? What company is that?
    • Up x 1
  16. ScrapyardBob

    That's something I wouldn't mind the developers changing. If you change seats, there should be a longer timer before you can change seats again in a vehicle. Right now, that delay is only a few seconds, where it should be more like 10-15 seconds between seat switches. So you could switch from pilot/driver to gunner seat, but you're not going to be able to switch back for 10-15 seconds.

    I'm only speaking of a delay where you were already in the vehicle and switch to a different seat. If you have just gotten into the vehicle, you should still be able to switch seats after a few seconds.
    • Up x 2
  17. Yeahy

    This conversation is going downhill.
    Now I see why SOE doesn't confirm updates with the community first.
  18. Surmise

    Also thermal vision needs to be toned down, in it's current state it's nothing more nor less than a huge crutch wheter on vehicles or air, it needs to be either removed or made less viable just like the nightvision was, let's be frank here.
  19. PKfire

    I honestly feel that a pilot should not be able to switch seats unless that seat is occupied by a player. This should be true for both Liberator and Galaxy alike.
    • Up x 5
  20. dstock

    Besides CompArmor and the excessive forward FOV on the tail gun, what other buffs are we talking about? I agree completely with your post, I think this proposal is Harassers squared, I simply want the full picture.

    I try to play everything in this game. IMO, the CompArmor buff was SOE's way of trying to make the Lib more viable in larger combat. It seems everyone agrees that was a mistake. I also don't believe the proposed changes are going to do much to solve the gameplay issues being addressed.

    Before we do anything with tanks, I want to see the Lib put back where it was, with a few small changes.

    Set Composite Armor back where it was. If AA Dalton Libs are a serious issue, set the resistance value so 2 shots sets a Lib on fire with 5% health. In a 1v1, if a Lib can't get 5% more damage with the other two guns or any outside assistance, maybe they don't deserve that kill. Completely remove Dalton resistance from Composite Armor. CompArmor is supposed to be protection from ground forces: leave it that way. After this change is live for a month, if MBT cannons are still seen as too strong, add one reload cycle worth of damage (1 Van/Mag shell, 2 Prowler) to Rank 4, and see what happens. Make small incremental changes.

    Add a new sound profile for the Lib. This is a reasonable request, one long overdue. I personally think the audio on Afterburners should be turned up slightly, as well.

    Reduce the belly gun ammo count by roughly half, both starting and per cert rank. Nerf the Duster less, depending on proposed buffs, which it sorely needs. This would go a long way to reducing the 'farm capacity' of the Lib, by increasing down time spent doing RTB.

    Limit the FOV of the tail gun by 5-10 degrees on each side of the forward direction. The side and down angles are great, the top is supposed to be the blind side of the Lib it seems, so leave those directions as is. Prevent overlap with the nosegun, particularly the laughable Spur.

    I've also been a Shredder player for some time now, and I think most of the comments in this thread are justified. It's slightly OP against MAXs now. I believe this is because of the weird damage drop off on it: it has superb damage close range, but it tapers off quickly. The weapon seems challenging to balance as is. Either adjust the resistances of the most affected units (MAXs, and IMO Harassers [I'm a biased Harasser driver, but the current number is around half a mag close range: there's not much you can do against a Shredder Lib besides hope you have cover]), or reduce the close range damage slightly, and extend the overall drop-off range.

    I also want to see the noseguns changed. Make the Spur and Vektor viable: increase the RoF AND CoF of the Vektor, and up the damage of the Spur. Reduce the RoF of the Tankbuster slightly: require pilots to spend slightly more time with the nose engaged to pump out all that DPS.

    I think these changes would go a long way to sorting out Liberators as they stand, by returning Composite Armor to reasonable levels, increasing the 'visibility' of Libs, reducing 'farm capacity', correcting small issues with the tail FoV, adjusting Shredder damage profile, and giving pilots options besides the Tankbuster instead of nerfing it into the ground as usual.

    It also leaves tanks completely out of the next 'balance pass', so some additional time and testing can be applied to those changes.
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