Why haven't coyotes been adjusted yet?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by badname123, Jun 11, 2014.

  1. Kociboss



    I happen to agree. Despite being br 100 I'm not really good at flying. Playing Combat Medic is my thing. Why you ask?

    I find the air game boring. Too many lock ons and flaks to dodge. Too many really good pilots (who on top of being good, tend to squad up and gank your @ss). I mean, yes , I know few manuevers, I can hold my own against intermediate pilots but every time I hop into mossie it's just so boring and unexciting. I rarely bump into a pilot of equal skill (and when I do it's often interrupted by XYZ) and when I get an air kill in a duel I'm usually like "well, he was worse than me should I feel proud now or what?"

    Infantry - Now that's where the adrenaline rush is.


    The mythical super-duper competetive 1 v 1 duels rarely happen, there is always something in the way (mini airzerg, flak, lock on, or even occasional vanguard rounds, you name it) and your best bet is to basically practice on PTS 24/7 against real life opponent in controlled enviroment...

    ...And rarely anyone is so dedicated to sacrifice hours upon hours on PTS to practice dogfights.




    Now in War Thunder (so a game with completely different flight characteristics) I tend to be in the top 3 (unless my team really really sucks and no I don't play arcade mode). All the manuevers, energy fighting, turn fighting, loops, hammerhead etc. feel more natural and exciting.


    In PS2 I feel like being submerged in an aquarium. There is barely any gravity, even if you're upside down. There is an ultra-low sky celling. There is no such thing as stalling. You're not an ESF pilot, you're a fish. Fighters, despite their differences generally operate in the same way. You can't point at reaver and say "Yes, this is an energy fighter, mossie is a turn fighter and scythe is a high altitude fighter".

    Yawnfest.
    • Up x 1
  2. SevenTwo

    I don't get the problem with Coyotes.

    If you are an experienced pilot getting nailed by Coyotes, run them yourself and Coyote people back, run A2A missiles and nail your opponents from well outside their effective range or be sneaky about how you engage in a fight to get the drop on the enemy aircraft.

    Coyotes are specifically designed for dogfighting and close range pursuits (due to their crappy velocity), so you'll just have to force the engagement to be outside of that range or specifically kit yourself to compete at that range. If you run A2G missiles, you are already handicapping yourself in the airgame by choosing to diversify to also be capable of ground assault - and in that situation you should probably get spanked by a dedicated air-superiority fighter, provided your relative skill levels are equal.

    Whether that is "fun" for everyone is debatable, but that is the reality of the situation - different loadouts are tailored for different tasks.

    As for new pilots not being able to compete in the air game, the air game is quite special both in terms of flight mechanics but also in the fact, that it's probably the only part of the game, where you can't easily hide among your allies and learn the ropes. You are on your own most of the time, which makes personal skill that much more important to prevail in combat against your opponents and this skill can only be learned in a live environment which is, to say the least, punishingly brutal.

    Is this good or bad?

    I honestly don't know, but if everyone easily could learn how to fly well and fight using the air vehicles, I don't think the ground game would be much fun. From my perspective, the only limiting factor to not having the skies black with swarms of aircraft is the fact that the learning curve is steep, it has some "investment" involved (in terms of certs and time) and the "dog eat dog" competitative environment of the airgame.

    This means only those with the dedication and will to persevere to become piliots will succed - and that I think is a good thing as it raises the general level of the airgame and makes it more fun for everyone in the air.
  3. Teshrrar

    The funniest part is the "let's make an A2A ESF be weaker than a A2G or AB ESF in the AIR battle" arguments.

    Ok then.

    And about WT, wait for simulation mode is soooooooo boring which I almost don't play anymore.
  4. Grayson

    What do you mean not easy?...The ONLY things you need is to rebind some keys, and learn 2....yes only 2 maneuvers....banking turn, and reverse.
    The rest is common sense and some practice.
  5. MostlyClueless

    "It's easy to get into! Oh but you don't start with all your keys bound and you need to learn a maneuver that you will never work out unless you check out youtube or get someone to help you."

    Or I could just get into a tank and it works like every tank in every game I've ever played.
  6. minhalexus

    What I think they should do with Coyotes and Tomcats is that, when a target is smoking/burning you can not lock on to it.

    So such weapons will only get half the job done, that is get the target to a smoking point. The pilot has to do the rest.
  7. Runegrace

    It's an interesting solution, but it might be difficult to read when someone is smoking at a distance (A2AM) or during an intense dogfight (Coyotes). I've been more a fan of increasing reload times to reduce the ability to spam the weapons and promote more nose gun time between missile volleys.
  8. Grayson

    That's the CHEAPEST excuse that i ever heard...IF you want to be good at something, you HAVE TO put some effort in it, and not just find a way to avoid the work ala coyotes...( i dont thing its too hard to do a google search on the reverse maneuver..)
    And if someone to lazy to change the controls so they can reach then quickly, or cant be bothered to do so, than that's a personal issue, and have nothing to do with the "omg horrible hard 2 fly lulz" thing..
  9. MostlyClueless

    And this is why pilots amuse me.

    "We want to make it easier for pilots to get into the air game, we really do!"

    "Can we change this then?"

    "What and make things easier? STOP NERFING SKILL"
  10. Cindil

    Easier to learn not easier to play.

    Which is why a lot of ideas from pilots are things like reducing the acquisition timer, or making the timer inversely proportional to certs invested, and a tutorial of some sort. These things would help new players get into the air more often and give them some semblance of an idea about what they're getting into (ie. ESFs are not airplanes). More time in the air gives them more time to learn.

    I want new players to get involved with the flight model we have. The one that's interesting and satisfying to play in.
    • Up x 1
  11. MostlyClueless

    If it was interesting and satisfying to play in you wouldn't be having so much trouble getting people to actually use it. The vast majority of people in my outfit refuse to fly because they hate it. Not even Liberators and those aren't difficult to fly.
  12. Collin


    Libs are the most hardest thing in the game to fly. Everything is shooting you my friend you will not survive a second in this. Just ignore the lib
  13. MostlyClueless

    Libs are ridiculously easy to fly, they've got a huge health pool which means you can make mistakes and survive. They're not anywhere as slow or as huge a target as the Galaxy and you've got some of the strongest guns in the game to back you up. You don't need to learn a reverse maneuver with a lib and really the hardest thing to learn is how to turn quickly. Which isn't hard.
  14. Collin


    Sry Sir i did not mean to troll you! You are right of course
  15. MostlyClueless

    Unfortunately long term exposure to pilots have left me unable to discern between trolling and legitimate opinion.

    Still trying to work out which of Long Range Sniper Infils and Pilots are most up their own butts. I'll let you know when the research comes in.
  16. Grayson

    Hating something is a PERSONAL issue, it has nothing to do with the game, if they dont like it, they dont do it, which means ==> they shouldn't be good at it by just certing into a dam secondary weapon.
    And like many of the people here suggested, a reduced timer for low BR, low certed ESF/libs would help a lot.
  17. GhostAvatar

    I posted something similar to this in other threads, so I will post it here also

    M18 Rotary DPS = 3333 x average accuracy of 29.3% = 976.5 DPS
    M18 Needler DPS = 2500 x average accuracy of 32.7% = 817.5 DPS
    Vortek Rotary DPS = 4000 x average accuracy of 29% = 1160 DPS
    M20 Mustang DPS = 2778 x average accuracy of 31.5% = 875 DPS
    Hailstorm Turbo laser DPS = 3286 x average accuracy of 28.9% = 949.6 DPS
    Saron Laser Cannon DPS = 2588 x average accuracy of 32.4% = 838.5 DPS

    Coyotes DPS is 667. Even before you apply the average accuracy of 50.2 - 51.6% (depending on faction) they have lost the DPS war. To get to the same kind of DPS as a Coyotes user with 100% accuracy. You would only need to only hit 1 in 4/5 shots depending on the nose gun of choice. Thats an average accuracy of 20-25%. And honestly, if you are getting less than 20% accuracy with a nose gun. You're going to have died either way, regardless of what weapon they used.

    People simply like to jump on the band wagon that coyotes are OP only because they perceive it having a lower skill ceiling due to it having a lock on ability. The fact is that this advantage is massively offset by it damage output.
    • Up x 2
  18. MostlyClueless

    Uh... it kinda does. They don't hate it because they have a deep seated hatred of all things plane shaped. They hate it because Planetsides flying is not friendly to learner drivers.

    Letting people pull ESF's more often won't help with the fact they'll just get one clipped by someone who knows what they're doing seemingly out of nowhere. Or the fact that to fly it well they need knowledge that isn't at all obvious.

    I agree Coyotes won't help people learning to fly. The issue they have was never with the weapons in the first place.
  19. Nerp

    First of all, I'll mention that I absolutely hate tomcats and coyotes. If it were up to me, they wouldn't be in the game.

    If I could adjust tomcats, I'd A. Buff flares, B. Nerf tomcat damage, and C. Nerf tomcat flight speed.

    Tomcats are the real issue, not coyotes. Coyotes are actually quite weak. They don't hit very hard, and are dodgeable to an extent. Maybe they could use a lockon range reduction, but what they definitely deserve is a reload speed nerf. As it stands however, using coyotes doesn't make you good by any stretch. It makes you good at killing pilots of skill levels equal to or below your skill. When you have an idea as to what you're doing in an esf, coyote users are easy to kill if you can consistently hit them with your nose gun. I would say that if someone jumps you with coyotes, you have more of a chance to kill them than if they used their nose gun, considering a nose gun can send you to critical before you can react, and coyotes will just get you to about 3/4 health.

    My suggestion for coyotes is as follows. Do one of the following : Nerf reload speed to that of a rotary nose gun, or buff rotary nose gun reload speed to that of the coyotes.


    Edit : Just adding this on : The main reason I myself suck at dealing with coyotes is just the sheer fact that they are missiles and not bullets. It's more intimidating to be hit by BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM than plinkplinkplinkplinkplink, you know? Maybe nerf their audio a bit? I say it's the same effect as infantry gun audio. It's more satisfying to use the new TR weapons that sound cool than the old tickticktick peashooters we had pre audio revamp.
  20. Bujias

    Its not going to change, even if there is a thread every week here and in reddit, i got my post deleted the other day apparently wasn't been constructive for saying i dont even remember what, coyotes might have less dps, but an experice pilot using them can just switch between reloads and add to his dps, its not hard to get close to someone, and once you are, if they turn tails and run wich is the only option against coyotes, they will just shoot you from behind, besides the fact that they can keep up for at least 2 more volleys of coyotes, if you fly straight your faster but easier to shoot with main gun, if you fly moving they will just catch up with you, so far the only way i found to deal with those things is get low and try to get into caves biolabs and things, you will usually see the coyote user crash and burn.

    There's been so many suggestions for coyotes, from removing them to nerfing them, to buffing sealth or composite or flares or fuel pods, or that you cant use afterburners if your carring any kind of secondary weapon, to making tutorials of how to fly IN GAME with basic manuvers for new people, or making it easier to aim main guns, or just easier to fly all around, or allowing new people to spawn more easily or making the certing cheaper for new people, so many ideas im sure i thats not even half of them, but in reality people got use to have their easy weapon, they wont let it go, most veteran pilots quit or barely fly now, coyotes are also one of the problems with the lib now a days, those pilots could handle the best lib crew's, now there are few people who can got against a really good lib crew alone and survive, besides the fact that if your using coyotes your maneuverability is so much less that its easier for a lib to kill you, but soe decided to nerf the lib a2a capabilities instead of looking into the bigger issue and why there are so many libs right now.

    I get why coyotes exist, i feel for a new guy trying to learn with all the experience pilots, its very frustrating getting kill by the same guy over and over and over again, it happen to me before i got decent and started killing people, i didn't start this game in close beta, i manage to get decent just after coyotes where release, i started using them and didn't feel any satisfaction from killing the guy that use to get me every time, i manage to get that guy the other day with just my main gun 1 on 1, in live server, he can probably kill me like 49 times out of 50, but that one times made me feel really good, it meant all that time i spent on practicing with people all those hours i put to flaying weren't for nothing, but as usual any guy with coyotes can come in and make you feel like all that time was useless again, it became so bad for me that i started feeling no pity for those that were using them and will always target first those that i know use them, that was just me tough.

    Lets face it coyotes are here to stay, not one idea we propose to make the air game enjoyable for those that liked the high skill of it while allowing the new guys to fly around and get good has been heard or even responded to so far, it does not matter how much we complain SOE doesn't care for those dedicated pilots.

    My recommendation: get into tanking, its pretty fun as well i discover it after coyotes grounded me, it takes more patience its more about awareness and positioning not so much about skill (tough there is definitely a lot of skill involved in many aspects). Do it before they make a weapons for gunners that is dumbfire lock ons like coyotes or any other weapons that lowers the fun of the tanking game.