Upcoming Tank and Liberator Changes

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Kevmo, Jun 6, 2014.

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  1. EliteEskimo

    I'm trying to get the tank projectile velocities side of this conversation off the ground on reddit, so for those who think nerfing tank velocities is generally a bad idea and/or we should buff Magrider projectile velocities instead of nerfing the Vanguard or Prowler please comment and help me keep this thread up. The more we put our ideas out there the better. Reddit Thread
    • Up x 1
  2. Munq

    If you can't kill a solo Lib, you are bad and you should feel bad.

    Oh I miss the good old days when people understood the meaning of roles. Now everyone just wants to run around with guns that have only one difference: name. Just remove the damn Liberator already. Remove ESF's and Galaxies too. Game is too hard for the new generation of babbies.

    Liberator doesn't belong in a game that is becoming more and more COD clone. People can't handle being crushed.

    I'm serious. Just remove them. Worst thing that will happen is you will lose the 10-50 people who actually fly those pieces of garbage. Best thing that could happen is you attract more COD kids who can't deal with adversaries that seem overwhelming to beat with LMG/assault rifle/SMG/pistol. That's what you are here for, right? To attract as many simple minded people to play your game and spend money on it.

    I dare you. Remove it. Nothing of value will be lost. DO IT.

    DO IT!
  3. vincent-

    I can't fully give my feedback fully on this thread I didn't read anything except for the main points from the devs but why stop with just tuning and buffing when so much effects this basically the HA and Engineer clases "Based on my point of view." have the most time against these things.

    Maybe giving engineers new turrets for AA and either turning or changing how heavy uses it's anti armor. Just my 2 cents for the time being.
  4. MasterFancyPants

    So... When are you guys going to realize that you aren't super MLG Pro, the Lib is just overpowered.
    There's a reason that the rest of your stats are average, or below average (K/D: 0.956642).

    And no, if a Lib can one pass a tank. A ESF should be able to one pass a lib. That's fair.
    SOE, you've lost about 30% of the games pop since the lib update. Keep that in mind.

    I'm all for making Lib weapons more powerful, but give them the health of an ESF. A glass cannon, like ya know a real gunship?
    • Up x 5
  5. Scr1nRusher

    thats great to know.




    excellent.





    Now look RadarX, About the tank range/velocity/gravity changes..... this IS A BAD MOVE and the wrong way to handle tanks.


    What should happen is HE rounds Removed from Tanks.

    it will solve alot of problems with tanks farming infantry, and also allow the secondary weapons to shine more. (Because its the secondary gunners job to handle infantry/armor/air depending on the weapon.)

    HE rounds have done no good for the game and have solely been used for farming infantry (you can even ask players ingame what HE rounds are for, they will answer "for infantry farming"). And have caused bad blood between infantry and tanks.


    Remove HE rounds from tanks and end the "#1 new player remover" of PS2 once and for all.



    Then allow MBT's to have Bulldogs & fury's as secondary options.

    Aswell as Buff the canister more and the marauder so they are more competitive options like the PPA currently is.



    Simple and effective.



    The longer HE tank rounds exist in the game, the more the game is going to be less popular and less new player retention.


    I feel bad for the PS4 guys that they don't know whats coming, but am glad that they haven't experienced HE Tank rounds yet.


    TLDR:

    Don't do the tank gravity/range/velocity changes, But instead Remove HE rounds from tanks(lightnings & MBT's), and then Give them(the MBT's) more secondary weapon choices(Bulldogs & fury's), and buff the ES AI secondaries for NC and TR to be on equal usage/standing/viability with the PPA.


    PS: Also please allow the walker and Ranger to look downward.
  6. SeanFree

    I know you're pushing hard for HE to be removed from tanks but SOE will NEVER do it. People have payed real money, i.e. station cash, for these items and will not take them away. I don't like HE as much as the next guy but you have to adapt and overcome.

    Good thing SOE is nerfing the crap out of the best vehicle to deal with a spawn camping tank....oh wait. That doesn't make sense.
  7. JoeSMokes

    So does this mean that prowlers will now start back flipping while backing up too? Pulled out of Crimson Bluff last night and back flipped on a pebble in the road. I'm not sure I need to do the same thing backing up.
    • Up x 1
  8. Scr1nRusher


    Because it should be common sense to Remove the HE rounds at this point, SOE should have done this a long time ago and the game would have alot more players then it does now.



    they can always be refunded Certs & SC.

    Also they could easily take them away.

    Also a single Fury Costs 700 SC, thats the same cost as HE rounds, A bulldong costs 500 SC.



    So SOE can actually make a profit(a substantial one might i add) if they Remove Tank HE rounds, and allow the MBT's to have bulldogs and Fury's as Secondary weapons. Aswell as spice up the Armor gameplay, turning Tanks into support platforms against infantry.






    tell that to the thousands of players that have left PS2 because of them or tried the game out and died to them and left and never came back.



    which is exactly why I am being sensable about removing HE rounds and giving MBT's more secondary options(bulldogs & fury's) and improving the tanks Secondary weapons overall.
  9. Scr1nRusher


    PS2..... where tanks act like plastic trucks and there cannons shoot like midievil basilisks or trebuchets .
    • Up x 2
  10. Cyrek

    I wouldn't touch liberator resistance just yet, most of the problem from libs is them swooping with tank buster out of nowhere, picking up tanks at an incredible pace, if the vehicle survived point your tail at it, switch seats and blow him with the dalton, you see this is another huge problem, the single piloted liberators who can do as well as a multi-passenger one with the seat switching exploit.
  11. Bindlestiff

    But that is also arguing in the positive for all the other proposed changes too, which quite frankly are just as equally off the mark (in my opinion of course). Data is raw and can guide but ultimately the game has to feel right when you play. The changes listed, especially to tanks, just seem like nobody on the development team understands or spends any length of time in them.

    Nearly 48,000 views as of right now and over 1000 replies says a lot about how interesting this topic is for everyone.
    • Up x 1
  12. Collin

    Look at my stats:

    I use the HE Prowler alot and even i just say its just good for spawn camping. Nothing else! The inderect splash is incredible to use.

    I am not saying remove the HE rounds just cut the ammopool in half.

    With the LIB I still say totaly overpowered thing with no purpose in the game exept a farmmashine without any limits.

    - Buff ALL main guns of the ESF fighters to get those things down
    - Buff the Skyguard by tighten the COF and maybe give it a little bit more vilocity
    - Nerf the shredder against so it cant be used as a solid AA platform (what it is atm)
  13. Collin

  14. Sebastien

    I'd rather see Flak range nerfed or flight ceiling increased, A2G weapons removed from ESF, A2A weapons promoted so ESF start policing Libs and other ESF rather than ignore each other so they can farm some more.
    • Up x 1
  15. FBVanu

    “We appreciate the continued feedback on these changes and the team is still discussing everyone's thoughts. To keep you guys in the loop, Tank and Liberator changes will not be rolled out in the same time frame. We'll let everyone know when changes have gone to PTS and look for your feedback there as well.” Do you really mean that, SOE ?
    What I don't understand is why there was a discussion in the first place, to reduce the range of tank weapons and lower their velocity, while also increasing their drop??? What exactly was the 'trigger' there to come up with these new horrendous tank nerf ideas?
    If SOE paid any attention to the forum, and was able to separate trolling from constructive input.. they would have noticed that most tankers (the ones I found), were only ever asking for small increases to velocity, small decrease to drop. Most tankers did not complain about the Lib, until after their recent major buff. That buff started it all.
    And that was a buff that the Lib pilots said they never even asked for.
    SOE get's in trouble without any input from us, they do it to themselves.. and NOW they say they want our input? Fine, SOE, I'll play along, I try it again, so, please, listen/ read again:
    If you are not willing to increase the velocity and decrease the shell drop.. for now, then just leave MBTs alone, as they are, right now. Most tankers that I know, with over 100 hrs in their tanks, do not have any major gripes.. maybe small ones, but not game - life changing issues. So, leave 'em be.
    The Liberator.. you turned it into a flying fortrress -- just move it back to where is was.. and just add some sound, so we can hear the darn beast.. Because of the last buff all these new ideas of how to nerf it, lower it's range, lower it's magazines.etc.. all that came about after you buffed it. SOE, you should never revert a buff and in addition nerf anything further than it ever was... that is going too far.
    Bring it back to where it was and then leave it alone, for a few months.. let the players adjust.. small steps.. one at a time.. not all at once.. then we can all see how it plays out and you, SOE, you can still nerf it all into oblivion a few months later.... what's your rush?
    SOE, PLEASE, listen to the input..... and then ask yourself why you ever came up with the idea of nerfing tank range?? If you don't have devs with at least 100 hours in tanks, you should not listen to them. let me give you an example: About a month ago you received a HACKER warning, because I was CHEATING.. according to a BR35 NC player on Indar. He reported that I had an illegal 'detection hack' in my tank,.. because I could automatically tell when an enemy player was behind my tank, trying to C-4 me....(I'm not making this up)
    Imagine that, a BR35 who had never heard of the Proximity Radar..... if you listen to those players, we will all be shooting potato guns soon.....
    New players will never learn how to play the game, unless you teach them.. some will never learn.. but none of it is going to work out for SOE, if you just constantly ignore your existing player base.
    Thanks for reading this. Maybe it will even make it to your internal discussion, .. I can only hope...;)

    • Up x 6
  16. Scr1nRusher


    then if HE from tanks is removed then the game would be better.




    Just like HE rounds on tanks.
  17. Nerd Mode

    I'm really happy that Prowlers will now have to be even closer to Vanguards while fighting them. Awesome.
    • Up x 3
  18. Klypto

    [IMG]
  19. Dinapuff


    The lib has a lot more purpose than the HE prowler.

    The hovering liberator shelling a base is good because nobody is pulling AA before it arrives. It is only going to be able to hover over a base if two things are true.

    1) You do not have aircontrol. You should always have some esf in the skies vying for air control.
    2) You do not have AA up.
    If you do not have these things then your faction should certainly be punished for their incompetence. A lib hovering over and farming everyone is something I would consider an appropriate amount of punishment.
    If you where not punished for lack of air control then having aircontrol would be considerably less worth it. During release the liberator was almost considered worthless because AA was so good that libs could not approach enemy bases. The only saving grace was rocketpods and the shredder being able to tear into AA maxes, and the fact that they where awesome defensive tools. Perfect for taking out enemy sunderers or farming clusters of infantry fast.


    (all these stats are taken from http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/items/vehicles taking the 2 weapons with the highest Vkph)
    V.kph:
    Vanguard AP + enforcer (12.4+13.1) = 25.5
    mag FPC + Halberd (13.3+15.2) = 28.5
    prowler AP + vulcan (15.5+11) = 26.5
    Liberator(2/3) TB + Dalton (6.3+16.3) = 22.6
    Liberator(3/3) TB+ Dalton+ Bulldog (6.3+16.3+4.9) = 27.5
    (i have only used the NC lib stats as using all three and then averaging sounds like work and the difference was miniscule)

    so the lib has to use 3 people to not be as effective at killing vehicles as a magrider with 2 people,
    notice how 2/3 lib and 2/2 vanguard are the lowest scoring yet are apparently "OP"

    ahhh i hear you say the lib farms infantry, and ruins all the fights!
    so lets take standard KPH of the standard infantry farming loadouts:
    kph:
    Vanguard HE+canister* (29.5+67.7) = 97
    Prowler HE+marauder** (42.9+60.2) = 103.1
    Mag VPC + PPA (33.2+62.6) = 95.8
    Liberator2/3 TB+Zeph (5.6+52.4) =58
    Liberator3/3 TB+zeph+bulldog (5.6+52.4+32.8) = 90.8
    (*i was surprised , apparently the canister is the highest performing AI secondary the vanguard can use...)
    (im going to assume the canister kph stat is being ruined by a small sample size there's no way it beats the ppa)
    Vg HE+kobalt (29.5+49.5) = 79
    (**and the same as the canister the marauder is probably not actually that good)
    prowler HE+kobalt (42.9+43.1) = 86

    so again a 2/3 lib is worse than all the MBT's at infantry farming and 3/3 it still isn't as good as a magrider
    and the best part? a 2/3 zepher lib isn't even as good as a 2/2 HE vanguard, take a moment for that to sink in the most ridiculed mbt in the game for its terrible AI performance is better than an AI lib...
  20. Sebastien

    You realise that at release the people that powerleveled to BR100 all did so in Libs?
    • Up x 1
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